What makes a style complete?

[red5angel]

Actually I've been hearing alot about Sun microsystems stations in the graphics design world.

[FngSaiYuk]

What makes a MAC complete?

48bits ::grin::

[FngSaiYuk]

Don't make me remind you of what market all the next gen games are designed for (it's pc's running linux and windows ) and all the technology such as advanced Graphics hardware (ATI, Nvidia et al) are made for PCs.

bzzzzt.... all the next gen games are designed for the xbox360 & the ps3, thanks for playing ::grin::

[Gangsterfist]

Actually right now, PCs still run the share of the market in all cases. However, I agree with FSY, that the mac OS X is a good OS. There are some problems and limitations I do not like about it, but it definately has its plus. However, its nothing new its based off old free BSD, so its not like apple is being inovative here. They are just recycling older technology into their version of PPC hardware.

Now, Sun spark stations, and that of the such also use PPC based hardware. They also have O2 (oxygen) video card support which are high end video cards used for heavy 3-D rendering.

I will say that most of the Digital audio market out there is run on macs, or at least a lot of the big dogs are. The thing is technology in the next 2 years is gonna make a huge jump to a new architechture probably. Apple is going to be left behind because of their stupid buisness ideals. Dual core processors are already coming out on the PC side this year. AMD is also currently kicking Intels arse in performance.

The internet is run on PCs running unix/linux.

As for an easy to install home user linux package there is one called Linspire. Its not perfect but the OS is based off linux and its pretty solid. Also all the apps you download for linspire already come in compiled installer packs. So you don't have to fuss with manual insatllation of apps via terminal like you do sometimes in linux. Which would be preferred for the home user.

I support home, buisness, everything at my job. I don't always keep on the most current technologies, but I am usually pretty good at keeping up a lot of the major stuff.

Bottom line:

Macs are not that bad of machines. I think their design is retarded at times and not practical for servicing/repairing/upgrading. I think they try to look appealing over being practical. I think that the OS needs work and needs a huge 3rd party bump, and it needs more network compatability. If apple ever breaks that barrier and becomes a harder player in the world market of technology they could be a major player. However, when it comes to running a network and building 150 systems for your companies computers PCs are just more effective and cost less.

However, Tiger has some promise, and I have yet to fully test its capabilities, but if it lives up to its hype a lot of issues I had with the mac OS may be gone now. I will have to find out I suppose.

IMHO, Macs and PCs both get the same job pretty much equally, its more a preference thing. Remember most errors are user related and not the computers fault. If you surf for pr0n all day and get a ton of spyware thats not the Oses fault, thats yours for not protecting yourself.

[Gangsterfist]

As for the video game developement topic.

Its moot to argue because the xbox2, PS3, are basically PCs, and based off PC technology. So the video card market is therefore based on PC technology and designed to best work with a PC. Plus video card companies market their cards towards gamers, which are mainly PC users.

[FatherDog]

Sadly no, graphics wise Mac no longer has the edge as you can do it all with PC architecture, 3rd party software designed for the PC, at much lower prices on both ends.

Uh, sorry, no, you can't. The Mac graphic programs are still better, especially video editing.

bzzzt. I'm sorry but that is a little hazy in the correctness.

Graphic designers should be comfortable in both platforms.

Should be, maybe, but the fact is the majority of graphic designers use Macs.

Pixar designed a lot of their own systems when it gets right down to it. As well, they designed a lot of their own software too.

So? They still make heavy use of Macs and essentially no use of PCs - their render farms are all Suns on SPARC architecture, and all of their pre-render art work is done on Macs.

Also, let's not forget GNU and Linux. Yall need a PC for that stuff and much of it is wayyyyyy cool!

Not true at all; you can install just about any linux distribution on a MAC. And even if you don't, OSX is built around a BSD core; you can compile any GNU program on a Mac and it will run fine, and many of the prepackaged versions can be stuck on and just work.

[Gangsterfist]

Actually,

The desktops the designers use may be macs, but the render farm is build of PC clusters.

http://www.canopus.us/us/canopus/pr_ProCoder_RFarm.asp

http://www.root6.com/Integration/ella.htm

Here is a posting for a admin to a render farm. Note you need linux and windows experience.

http://www.miscojobs.com/jobs/L_3/job_163558.htm

http://dv411.com/rfarm.html

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/9967

http://www.linuxnetworx.com/news/4.2...Networx_R.html

So, really Hollywood is using PCs man. Your information is false. The reason Pixar uses macs is because the probably get them for free or very cheap. However Pixar recently switched to the dark side and now runs intel based technology adn Linux.

read this and weap

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2003/02/10.7.shtml

So, really PCs run the world, even the graphic design world.

[FngSaiYuk]

Now, Sun spark stations, and that of the such also use PPC based hardware.

Since when have SPARC's been PPC's?

[Gangsterfist]

Since when have SPARC's been PPC's?

Sorry don't know what I was saying that was suppose to type in as IBM, but I must've not been thinkign when I typed that in.

My point was, Macs are not the only ones that use PPC based technology. Infact it wasn't even developed by apple.

Anyways, I rest my case.

[FngSaiYuk]

As for the video game developement topic.

Its moot to argue because the xbox2, PS3, are basically PCs, and based off PC technology. So the video card market is therefore based on PC technology and designed to best work with a PC. Plus video card companies market their cards towards gamers, which are mainly PC users.

I wouldn't consider the PS3's cell processors 'basically PC's'. I still haven't found a reliable source for the xbox360 hardware. Even though there are many off the shelf parts that are pc compatible in these game consoles does not mean that developing games for the console is the same as developing the game for the pc. There's A LOT that's different, not the first of which is a very specific reference platform to develop from.
PC game developing can be more difficult due to the variety of hardware out there. There's no specific real target platform to design to. Instead most cutting edge companies decide on a bunch of specs that they consider advanced enough and design towards that.

[FngSaiYuk]

Not true at all; you can install just about any linux distribution on a MAC. And even if you don't, OSX is built around a BSD core; you can compile any GNU program on a Mac and it will run fine, and many of the prepackaged versions can be stuck on and just work.

Heh, yah, a lot of people somehow seem to map GNU/Linux to the x86 arch when the linux kernel has been ported to more archs than nBSD and full GNU/Linux OS' are available on almost as many archs as nBSD.

I totally understand tho'... the pc hardware market is HYOOOOOJ by comparison. And there are very few hobbyists that will tinker with non-x86 archs when it's not also part of their job compared to the number of hobbyists that play around w/x86 hardware. Again, understandable considering the availability and low entry of the x86 hardware market.

[FngSaiYuk]

Sorry don't know what I was saying that was suppose to type in as IBM, but I must've not been thinkign when I typed that in.

My point was, Macs are not the only ones that use PPC based technology. Infact it wasn't even developed by apple.

Anyways, I rest my case.

Heheh, yah, I've worked with all of IBM's RISC based archs from the original RT series through the RS series and their Power chips (waaaay kewler than the dinky, by comparison, PPC cpu's in current macs & amigas).

[Gangsterfist]

Unconfirmed xbox2 hardware specs are ati video chip set and risc based processor, based possilby off the PPC technology that is in the G5 processor. However, that was just a rumor.

If you look at what microsoft has done with the console market you will realize what I say is actually true. Every developer can now very much easily port over any xbox pretty easily to the pc world. The xbox is a PC. Based off intel technology. Now, the PS3, and game cube will always be a bit harder to port over due to the reasons you listed. However, I can see more console systems doing what microsoft is doing because it will let the game developers easily port their games to both markets of PCs and console.

Also, the video card market is geared totally towards PC users. They come out first for the PC, and they are more supported by the PC hardware out there. You can use them in several OSes too on the PC. That is because a lot of gamers don't want to play 3-d shooters on a console or be limited to the hardware specs of a console. Even though console hardware is usually a bit before its time.

Also the upgradeability of the PC is more appealing to some people, plus since most consoles no longer want to include Hard drives in their systems because of piracy, this will turn more hard core gamers back to the PC again.

[Gangsterfist]

Heheh, yah, I've worked with all of IBM's RISC based archs from the original RT series through the RS series and their Power chips (waaaay kewler than the dinky, by comparison, PPC cpu's in current macs & amigas).

I kinda wish I had a working amiga to tinker with. Those were really cool machines.

[FngSaiYuk]

Unconfirmed xbox2 hardware specs are ati video chip set and risc based processor, based possilby off the PPC technology that is in the G5 processor. However, that was just a rumor.

Yah, all I've seen is screenshots of upcoming games... and some of them look REALLY nice. Supposedly more info will be released 05/12/05 on the xbox360.

If you look at what microsoft has done with the console market you will realize what I say is actually true. Every developer can now very much easily port over any xbox pretty easily to the pc world. The xbox is a PC. Based off intel technology. Now, the PS3, and game cube will always be a bit harder to port over due to the reasons you listed. However, I can see more console systems doing what microsoft is doing because it will let the game developers easily port their games to both markets of PCs and console.

C'mon now, you're totally ignoring the whole writing direct to the hardware thing as well as consistent timing of the target platform. If it was sooooooo easy to port between the xbox & PC, then why aren't more xbox titles ported? I would really really really want to play Wrath Unleashed on the PC (I do have a winxp partition on one of my workstations purely for gaming). I don't have any stats, but there are far more games on the xbox that have NOT been ported to the PC and have no solid plans of porting to the PC.
The games that are easily portable are ones that are based on gaming engines that are cross platform. These types of games rarely take FULL advantage of each platform.

Also, the video card market is geared totally towards PC users. They come out first for the PC, and they are more supported by the PC hardware out there. You can use them in several OSes too on the PC. That is because a lot of gamers don't want to play 3-d shooters on a console or be limited to the hardware specs of a console. Even though console hardware is usually a bit before its time.

The vid card market is geared towards PCs due to the ovewhelmingly large x86 market period.

Also the upgradeability of the PC is more appealing to some people, plus since most consoles no longer want to include Hard drives in their systems because of piracy, this will turn more hard core gamers back to the PC again.

I find most home users think upgrade = new computer.

Again, I'm not saying the PCs suck or anything like that. I just want to bring up what I feel are flaws in the statements expressed here. The size of the PC market is why anything new is always available for PC's. PC's are just not the end all be all... there are plenty of alternatives that are better suited for particular niches. Right tool for the job and all...