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Thread: What makes a style complete?

  1. #1
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    What makes a style complete?

    On the way home from tonights class, I was content.

    Ive thought about this before, and have come to the same conclusion before...but when I learn new things, it happens all over again.

    I feel like the most lucky person alive to have found this school/style.

    Mainly since the reason I had found out about it was just by chance...I knew next to 0 when I walked into the doors, and basically joined up without having any idea what to expect. Just imagine if I had walked into some low-grade-mc-dojo...

    Anyway, onto the the question: What makes a style complete? What must a style have to make it a complete system of MA?

    What are the basics it must have?

    What are the extras?

    How many forms? (No forms?)

    Philosophy?

    etc

    Basically...why are you sticking with what you have? I know that "no style is the best", but what keeps you loving the particular style you've chosen?

  2. #2
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    To me this is what makes a style compelete
    1.striking
    2.jointlocking
    3.groundwork
    4.blocking and evading
    5.weapons both classical and modern as well as disarming
    6.throws and breakfalling
    7.dealing with realistic application and scenerio
    8.being able to use enviroment
    9.using misc. ways of selfdefense(spitting,hair pulling,using a crunch,etc)
    10.chokes and escape
    11.dealing with psychology(itimation factors,verbal conflicts,dealing with crisis)
    12.knowing how to apply first aid or healing factors

  3. #3
    I pretty much agree with Mikkyou but would remove "classical weapons" from the list and add "chi-blast".

  4. #4
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    no such thing as a "complete" style when thought of in the context of the widest arrangement of possible scenarios. imo.

    You can have robust styles that cover a lot of material, but the more material there is, the less likely you are to really grasp it all in it's entirety.

    Better to do the best you can with what you have. That is more of a sense of complete in context to the self.
    Kung Fu is good for you.

  5. #5
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    I've actually gotta agree with KL/DJ here. I think the actual key is how robust the style is.

    Xing yi doesn't strike one as 'complete', especially in the five fists stage. But it does such thorough and adaptable training that it is.

    OTOH, I've met stylists from arts that have upwards of 30 forms and 1000's of techniques that suck muchly.

    Which is weird. The 'big art' stylists know an awful lot more intellectually, but the 'small art' stylists have their arts so ingrained into their body structure that it just plain works. Different definitions of 'complete', maybe.
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  6. #6
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    I go back and forth on this. You can make a ton of lists laying out what you think makes a complete martial art, but tha's never really satisfied me. Ultimately I think you can offer some pretty well rounded training and creat a fairly effective fighter. Of ocurse "Effective" is subjective.

    Part of the problem I have with a lot of the so called reality schools is that they tend to try to realize the dream of a complete style, by mish mashing tons of crap into their training. Unfortunately I think it usually lacks some cohesiveness, something I think is important, and generally they are trying to cram so much into you that you get what kung lek pointed out, too much information and not enough time to really effectively soak it up.
    _______________
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  7. #7
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    I feel similar to pailum dream about my art as he does. I feel pretty lucky to have found capoeira and be able to attend a class in my area. I don't think it's "complete" but it touches on alot more then most of the other arts I"ve studied.
    _______________
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by red5angel
    I feel similar to pailum dream about my art as he does. I feel pretty lucky to have found capoeira and be able to attend a class in my area. I don't think it's "complete" but it touches on alot more then most of the other arts I"ve studied.
    Maybe it never was a question of how complete the art was at all, but really how complete you beleive you are as a fighter...? Eh. Maybe not...
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZIM
    Maybe it never was a question of how complete the art was at all, but really how complete you beleive you are as a fighter...? Eh. Maybe not...

    personally it was just finding the right sort of challenge, but you throw out a good question. How do you define a complete art as it compares to the artist that practices it? What if he/she is a natural talent and tough as nails? Is "completeness" subjective?
    _______________
    I'd tell you to go to hell, but I work there and don't want to see you everyday.

  10. #10
    Agreed. The answer is you.

    You make your style complete.

    In the old time, there is a quest for a complete or single move to defeat all. So not a style but a move.

    If you are a boxer with a good left uppercut, everything else is entry or foreplay before you may use your strong left uppercut.

    Some examples from the old time;

    Guo Yun Shen half step Beng Quan in Xing Yi.

    Single exchange palm in Ba Gua Zhang.

    Yang Lu Chan or Yang Wu Di "Ban Lan Zui" in Tai Chi.

    Tactics and strategy count for 99% of the time. 1% is your Kung Fu.

    You may have few moves but they solve most of your fighting problems. And that may be enough. The rest is mastering them skillwise and commanding your tactic and strategy for them.

    In all styles, the answers are usually in the beginner sets of forms.

    Such as Little idea in Wing Chun.

    Xiao Hong Quan in Shaolin.

    Beng Bu in 7 star Mantis.

    5 fists in Xing Yi.

    5 palms in Tong Bei.

    on and on.


  11. #11
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    Good post, SPJ
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  12. #12
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    A complete art includes:

    Fighting standing up

    Fighting on the ground

    This would include both grappling and striking.

    That's about it.


    Whether or not the art addresses them WELL, is a separate issue

    Judo technically has striking - but do you really want to learn punches and kicks from anybody who spends most of their time learning how to throw?
    "In the world of martial arts, respect is often a given. In the real world, it must be earned."

    "A stupid man's report of what a clever man says is never accurate because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand. "--Bertrand Russell

    "Liberals - Cosmopolitan critics, men who are the friends of every country save their own. "--Benjamin Disraeli

    "A conservative government is an organised hypocrisy."--Benjamin Disraeli

  13. #13
    I think there are two different things here: 1) what makes a complete style and 2) what things/styles make you feel complete.

    For #1, a style can be complete all on its own, independent of any person. But that doesn't mean it will feel "complete" to you, as that is based on your needs and desires. By the definition of "complete", I would say that for a style to be complete, it has to not be missing anything - i.e., any martial art concept, training method, theory, etc. that exists in another style is represented in that one somewhere. Maybe not to the same extent or depth, but it is there somewhere. I'm not referring to every individual technique or strike here, but at one level higher. I'm not including all *possibilities* here, just what actually exists in other styles. So if another kung fu style has a concept that yours doesn't, then I would say that your style is not complete (not that that's bad). Does this mean then that NO style is complete? Well, I don't know.

    For #2, complete would mean that your style has everything that you want out of it, even if the style itself is not "complete" according to #1.

    That's my take on it, anyway. To check #1, I think we'd have to make a list off all concepts, training methods, etc. that are in everyone's styles and see if any style has all of them or not.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Merryprankster
    A complete art includes:

    Fighting standing up

    Fighting on the ground

    This would include both grappling and striking.

    That's about it.
    Shee-ya, right... you don't even have fighting underground or fighting underwater...frickin' troll...
    -Thos. Zinn

    "Children, never fuss or fret
    Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
    Your little hands were never meant
    To pluck out one anothers eyes"
    -McGuffey's Reader

    “We are at a crossroads. One path leads to despair and the other to total extinction. I pray I have the wisdom to choose wisely.”


    ستّة أيّام يا كلب

  15. #15
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    What works for one person may not work for another.

    Whats your definition of complete, should guns be added to be complete?

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