What makes a style complete?

[KC Elbows]

Here's a helpful list that may clear up what makes a style complete for its practitioner:

1) If your training goal is to feel pleasant on a semi permanent basis, using your pleasantness as a weapon against those who don't conform to universal bliss, then the path you should take would require pot, pajamas, lots of soft touching, and Enya in order to be seen as complete. This path would also require weapons be used in a non-dangerous manner.

2) If your training goal is to come dangerously close to training in a way that might involve you getting hit by somebody, you have two options:

a) Join a school that does more push ups than other schools. Combined with their weekly forms, your feeling of smug superiority will be unbeatable!

b) Join a school that uses rash guards. Remember, if a school uses rash guards, it's owner is by default good! But don't think that rash guards are all you need. What pot, belly dancer pants, and 60's pop culture are to the tai chi hippy, a shaven head, the right brand pads, and a rash guard are to you. And don't be caught citing last years winner, because even your "Pain" tatoo won't impress anyone if you're screaming "armbar" in the year of the stomp.

Either of these options could be deemed complete.

Finally,

3) If your goal is to learn how to honestly use this stuff,

-find the best people that teach each of the skill sets you need to know, and don't settle on learning "everything this guy has" when you just want to know his specialty.
-prioritize what you specialize in based on your skill and build
-practice it realistically
-Stay off the forums and don't do drugs.

[Vasquez]

Your hands and feet should become weapons - iron palm etc and your body whould be a shield against attacks. this you learn through hard chi kung. soft chi kung lets you project your intent which will deter attackers.

ppl who learn mma tend to be worried about this and that -it just goes to show little knowledge is dangerous.

[Christopher M]

Nothing? ****... was it a little over the top?

[ZIM]

ppl who learn mma tend to be worried about this and that -it just goes to show little knowledge is dangerous.

We are here to protect you
Pushing will protect you
Pushing will protect you
From the terrible secret of space

That is incorrect
Shoving will protect you
Shoving will protect you
From the terrible secret of space

Do not trust the shover robot
Pushing is the answer
We are here to protect you

Do not trust the pusher robot
He is malfunctioning
We are here to protect you

[Anthony]

In the past, a martial art style wasn't complete if you didn't know how to ride horseback, if you couldn't ride horseback while shooting a bow and arrow, if you couldn't build shelter for yourself and hunt food in the middle of nowhere if you were lost, and many other things not related to actual fighting. All traditional martilal arts studied today are incomplete because traditionally, they included learning such things. Times change of course, which is why today martial artists carry machine guns and wear bullet proof armor.

[Vasquez]

We are here to protect you
Pushing will protect you
Pushing will protect you
From the terrible secret of space

That is incorrect
Shoving will protect you
Shoving will protect you
From the terrible secret of space

Do not trust the shover robot
Pushing is the answer
We are here to protect you

Do not trust the pusher robot
He is malfunctioning
We are here to protect you

That is totally against TCMA philosophy. We learn to yield and apply precise chin na. there's no need to push because whn you yield your attacker will fall into empty space.

[Face2Fist]

anyone saw the figth between kid yamamoto and the shaolin guy in the recent K 1 mma event?

no kung fu was used, the shaolin guy was choked out!!!

so much for chi power and mystical strikes

[ZIM]

That is totally against TCMA philosophy. We learn to yield and apply precise chin na. there's no need to push because whn you yield your attacker will fall into empty space.

Ha! Cheers.

[johnv]

In the past, a martial art style wasn't complete if you didn't know how to ride horseback, if you couldn't ride horseback while shooting a bow and arrow, if you couldn't build shelter for yourself and hunt food in the middle of nowhere if you were lost, and many other things not related to actual fighting. All traditional martilal arts studied today are incomplete because traditionally, they included learning such things. Times change of course, which is why today martial artists carry machine guns and wear bullet proof armor.

That was the point I was trying to make earlier....nothing out there today is "complete", at least as far as we know. What most people are discussing on this thread is what is "necessary", and restricted to fighting skills only. Completeness is a superset of necessity, and fighting is a subset of what many styles have to offer. An extremely important part, but not everything.

[PangQuan]

anyone saw the figth between kid yamamoto and the shaolin guy in the recent K 1 mma event?

no kung fu was used, the shaolin guy was choked out!!!

so much for chi power and mystical strikes

was this an actual shaolin warrior, if so what generation and what name? if not then BAHH!!

[SevenStar]

Fighters in the ring tend to be good atheletes but they lack spiritual content. I've even been to Thailand to learn the Ram Muay. The biggest difference is fighting with gloves and you can't do DM from TCMA. Ring fights tend to be tough man con test rather than skill.

Dim mak?? tell me you're trolling... please...tell me...

[SevenStar]

They don't have a broader philosphy to what they do, like the ying yang and the book of changes. all they try to do is try to punch harder and faster. pleasssse you make me laugh.

That does it




chi hippy alert!!!!!!!!

[SevenStar]

Doesn't matter if you been thrown in front of a car or down a flight a stairs Ukemi(rolling,leaping,leap rolling,break faling,flips)is Ukemi no matter what
happens if you have correct Ukemi,Timing,Distancing,Taisabaki(body movement)than your body automatically adapts to it.Example given I never practiced diving over a 4ft hedge onto concrete before but since I have good enough Ukemi
I was able to.I once slipped backwards on a wet floor I don't practice slipping on wet floors however since I have good Ukemi I went with it and rolled safely.

you are correct - ukemi IS ukemi. Here's the rub - your situation. go to the middle of the floor - jump and safely roll. Now, go play in the middle of the expressway and unexpectedly get caught in the path of a speeding semi. roll out of the way.

Which was harder? Why? Once you answer that question, you will understand what I was talking about.

The same goes with Muto dori(taking away weapons)I never have taken an Ax from someone but the same ideas behind Mutodori would apply as if taking a Sword or Spear or Knife and so on. When YOUR RING decides to allow people to use weapons,spiting,hair pulling,biting eye gouges and so on then perhaps we can discuss your style being compelete but if You are not training with someone using a weapon on you at full force than how you be sure you can defend against it.One day I decided to be sneaky with my training partner I hid a wooden knife in my back pocket He went in for the shoot I reached in my back pocket pulled out the knife let him take me down into the mount and as soon as he did i stuck the knife into his chest do you train like this in YOUR RING?

See above. As far as MY RING, was the knife real? no? guess what just played a game. your training is no more "real" than a sport fighter's. I've done drills with live machettes, but they are just that - drills - we knew what the other was going to do - it was a game. until YOUR KWOON decides to allow people to use weapons,spiting,hair pulling,biting eye gouges and so on then perhaps we can discuss your style being compelete but if You are not training with someone using a weapon on you at full force than how you be sure you can defend against it. Face it, you too are playing a game. And from the sounds of your posts, your game is far less real than mine...

[SevenStar]

I have seen schools use real blades in actual Mutodori situation(sometimes they get cut trying to disarm)I see no point using an actual live blade to train with
since a wooden one gives the same realistic applications(you can get the idea of getting cut and stabbed but live to train)We train on Asphalt sometimes again we like to try diffrerent types of floors unlike some people who roll on a nice comfortable mat(do you practice your break falls and groundwork on concrete?)
As for the bar kinda of difficult to train there however we can use the same close quarters that a bar provides.Now does your class offer grappling on concrete,
does it allow you to even work with weapons? does it allow you to work with throwing things at each other? What if I push you down a flight of stairs can you roll correctly to avoid injury?If I push you over broken glass can you leap roll over it?It's great you have experience in a controled ring enviroment with none of these varibles and tons of rules with a referee but you know what your playing in a sport period.

see, this is what I was talking about when I said your game was less real than mine. now you just plain are not thinking... a wooden knife gives the same realistic applications? In THEORY it will. But realistically, when you mess up, you will not get cut. IT'S SAFE...a game. Also, you are in a friendly environment - no adrenaline rush to deal with....a game. To answer your question, I actually do do breakfalls on concrete and hard gym floors. I did them initially to see what it felt like, and Have done them several times since when people in class questioned how breakfalls work on a hard surface. However, for SAFETY reasons, (read: it's a game) they should be performed on a mat.

In the ring, you feel adrenaline rushes and various other things while you are dealing with the guy opposing you whom you don't know and who wants to tear you apart. that is far less controlled then being in a friendly environment, playing with your schoolmates. No matter how you look at it, what you do is very controlled.

[SevenStar]

I picked up a knife and a wooden knife
same balance same weight same shape.I would say this a knife is a knife the same defense you use against a wooden one a plastic one a butter knife or a blade with an edge is the same(we are training principles,concepts)If we actually
stabbed each other bled then its not training is it?!Then it becomes attempted murder. Ok but the rules of no eye gouging,no hair pulling,no biting,no using small joint manipluation,no elbows to the head no spitting,no pulling the ears leaving so many varibles out this is not hand to hand this is sporting with rules to win same as soccer.see your confusing rules with realstic training.

Now you're catching on... you are training principles and concepts - that's not the epitome of realistic, but you are coming to what you safely think is close enough to it.

RULES=An agreement between 2 or more parties on what each party can and can not do.REALSTIC TRAINING=An enviroment set to simulate actual combat where anything is allowed in place but certain things are substitued to mimic similar effects.FIGHTING=A confortantion betwen 2 or more parties where anything is allowed and there are no subsitutions of any sort.Now MMA uses Rules
I used the defination of Realstic training.Those who engage in street fights are fighting see the difference? A person should have a basic understanding oh how to use a stick to defend himself and a person should have a basic understanding on how to deal with someone with a beer bottle about to be broken over his head these are weapons and if you only train hand to hand well guess what the person who knows how to use the weapon is going to have the upper hand nuff said.

when you do "realistic training", are you not agreeing to a certain set of rules? I mean, you are agreeing to not actually kill eachother, as you admitted above. The basic understanding you are referring to is taught to you in theory, based on your "realistic training", which as I just pointed out IS bound by a certain ruleset AND it's friendly - you are doing it with your training buddies.