7 Star Praying Mantis and Black Tiger when,where,who,????

[jmd161]

Just curious,



I'm hoping that some of you here will have an idea.



I can't remember now ,but i know that 7 Star mantis has some Black Tiger forms. I'm not sure if they are actual Hak Fu Muhn forms or just have Black Tiger in their names. I've heard that they are actual Hak Fu Muhn forms ,but i can't say for sure.



Do any of you have any info or history about who,when, and where these forms became part of 7 Star Mantis.


Thanks for any info




jeff

[BeiTangLang]

Judging from the black tiger stylisms from the movies on the site linked to your id, the sytems are not even close to the same. The stylings from your videos look very southern & the Hok Fu forms (at least as I know them in Northern Mantis) are very much not.

Anyone else?? This is an interesting question.

[Paul_E]

I recently learned a black tiger form (freaking long) and I also learned black tiger cross from raymond ly(hk 7 star). In my beginner's perspective, they are unrelated from stances to striking techniques. Just off the top of my head, the tiger hiding and unicorn stance are all over the black tiger form whereas they are absent in black tiger cross. Also, if I remember, what makes black tiger so special is its mix of southern upper body with northern stances. Say what you want about HK 7 star but it does not have the unicorn or tiger hiding stances as far as I know (at least in the the mantis I learned from Ly before he died). Please correct me if I'm wrong. Long story short, I believe they are unrelated. It's probably coincidence or some sort of cultural reference on the part of the mantis people.

[Young Mantis]

I can't remember now ,but i know that 7 Star mantis has some Black Tiger forms. I'm not sure if they are actual Hak Fu Muhn forms or just have Black Tiger in their names. I've heard that they are actual Hak Fu Muhn forms ,but i can't say for sure.
jeff

Jeff,

Depending on which lineage of HK 7Star Mantis you check with, there are varying Black Tiger forms. However, none of these are related to the Hahk Fu Muun system. 7Star mantis is still a Northern Gung Fu style even if it was brought to HK and Hahk Fu Muun is a very southern style.

As for how or when our "Hahk Fu" forms were added, I unfortunately do not have that information.

Vance

[FEELERSTRIKE]

There is a good chance that the Black Tiger forms where introduced by WRS or FXD in the 1800,s due to there Northern Shaolin name and influence , very difficult to say for sure ?

[jmd161]

Jeff,

Depending on which lineage of HK 7Star Mantis you check with, there are varying Black Tiger forms. However, none of these are related to the Hahk Fu Muun system. 7Star mantis is still a Northern Gung Fu style even if it was brought to HK and Hahk Fu Muun is a very southern style.

As for how or when our "Hahk Fu" forms were added, I unfortunately do not have that information.

Vance

Young Mantis,

What alot of people don't know is that Black Tiger is actually a mix of Northern and Southern shaolin arts. So we do have northern longrange forms, as well as close range southern fist sets.

But, it is mainly a southern fist style.


jeff

[Paul_E]

I asked my teacher today. He said that black tiger inspired the creation of the black tiger forms in mantis. Well, I hope you find what you're looking for.

[jmd161]

I asked my teacher today. He said that black tiger inspired the creation of the black tiger forms in mantis. Well, I hope you find what you're looking for.

hey Paul_E,

Thanks for the info it helps alot.


jeff

[BeiTangLang]

Young Mantis,

What alot of people don't know is that Black Tiger is actually a mix of Northern and Southern shaolin arts. So we do have northern longrange forms, as well as close range southern fist sets.

But, it is mainly a southern fist style.


jeff

Intersting. Do you have links to other BT sets of your lineage?? The ones on the link in your id look like a mixture of Wing chun & Hung Gar (to my untrained eyes).

What northern influences does it have?

[jmd161]

Intersting. Do you have links to other BT sets of your lineage?? The ones on the link in your id look like a mixture of Wing chun & Hung Gar (to my untrained eyes).

Well, i have more vids, but my sifu has told me "DO NOT" post anymore vids on the internet. The problem is that alot of ppl claim Black Tiger that are not really teaching Black Tiger, so they use stuff we post on the internet to help them decieve others.

Actually, the sets i posted on the site with the exeception of the staff set, are basic beginner and dummy sets.

What northern influences does it have?

I'm not sure which arts exactly, but i trained in Bak Sil Lum before and there's alot of longrange techniques within Black Tiger. Night Tiger Fist (Ye Fu Kuen) is a core Black Tiger form and it's entirely a longrange form.

There's actually alot about Black Tiger that people don't know because Hak Fu Muhn is so secretive. We have core Drunken sets as well that were created by Su Hak Fu himself, this is a bit of info we've just released that anyone outside of Hak Fu Muhn had no clue to.

jeff

[quasar987]

Here's a piece of info and a theory..

Piece of info: In 7 star Praying Mantis, there is a particular technique that is called "black tiger steals the heart" (according to my Sifu). The technique involves deflecting, or simply pushing away your oponents arm and then striking him in the solar plexus. Just to name one, the move appears in 'Er Lu Zhai Yao' (Mandarin prononciation) / 'Yee Lo Yare Yue' (Cantonese prononciation), which roughly translates into "Routine 2 of Summary Boxing" (Sifu just calls it #2', ahah).

Theory: I see here in a list of forms of the 7 star PM system I got off the internet, that there is a form of 7 stars PM called 'Hei Hu Jiao Cha' (Mandarin) / 'Ha Fu Gau Cha' (Cantonese), which translate roughly to 'Black Tiger Cross Boxing'. Since the move "black tiger steals the heart" does indeed look like a cross when you do it (your arms kind of draw an 'x'), and considering also that many forms take the name of a move that's in them repetely (ex: 'Bung Bo Kuen' = Burst Stepping Boxing, 'Chap Choy Kuen' = Thrust Hammer Boxing, 'Dou Gan Quan' = Avoid Force Through Parrying Boxing, etc.), I hypothesise that the form 'Black Tiger Cross Boxing' is just a form named after the move 'Black Tiger steals the heart' because that move is kind of "at the center" of the form, just as the the burst stepping is at the center of 'Bung Bo' and "Hammer hands" are at the center of 'Chap Choi'.

On the other hand, it seems very plausible to me that the mantis forms 'Black Tiger Cross Boxing' contains actual elements of the Black Tiger style because from what I have seen*, the two styles are VERY similar.

*I'm refeering to the videos on this website: http://www.mts.net/~sillum/Inner%20Chamber.htm

[K.Brazier]

In Shandong there is a style called Hei Hu Chuen-Black Tiger Fist.