System Completeness??

[Reggie1]

One question crossed my mind is why grappling styles like eagle claw don't focus on take downs whereas BJJ does.

I can see the logic in that.

I feel its because BJJ is sportive - can be done in a ring. Not practical on a hard concrete floor or unknown surroudings.

Again it's not just whether you train but how you train for what purpose.

I can see a takedown being very practical on a concrete floor. I'd imagine most takedowns are designed for you to end up on top of your opponent. You get the benefit of not having to land on the concrete floor because you're on top of them, and they get the unfortunate disadvantage of landing on concrete and having you on top of them.

[Vasquez]

I can see the logic in that.
I can see a takedown being very practical on a concrete floor. I'd imagine most takedowns are designed for you to end up on top of your opponent. You get the benefit of not having to land on the concrete floor because you're on top of them, and they get the unfortunate disadvantage of landing on concrete and having you on top of them.

Any guess as to why eagle claw was done that way? TCMA also has sweeps against the pressure points at the ankle to throw off the balance and drop the attacker on the ground. IMHO it is better than going down with your attacker.

In an ideal collison the attacker would go straight down and you land on the top. But this is not a ring, the ground might be uneaven, etc etc and you might both end up hitting the gound. what do you think?

[Fu-Ying]

Sevenstar-

I know judo is not a traditional art. I was using the word traditonal, in the context of how the curriculum of most traditonal arts are closely adhered to by students and teacher.

In this case i was saying how closely overseas judo schools adhere to the same curriculum as the Kodokan in Japan.

[Reggie1]

Any guess as to why eagle claw was done that way? TCMA also has sweeps against the pressure points at the ankle to throw off the balance and drop the attacker on the ground. IMHO it is better than going down with your attacker.

In an ideal collison the attacker would go straight down and you land on the top. But this is not a ring, the ground might be uneaven, etc etc and you might both end up hitting the gound. what do you think?

I agree. Falling on concrete sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be, ESPECIALLY if you know how to fall. We do our Shaui Chiao on hard, unpadded carpet and it's not too bad. Sure, concrete is going to be rougher than that, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

We have quite a few sweeps as well w/ a similar philosophy to eagle claw. Our ideal is that we stay upright and leave the attacker on the gound. It's just that in actual practice (for me), it's quite difficult to stay on your feet from any standing takedown, save the ankle sweeps.

[Vasquez]

I agree. Falling on concrete sucks, but I don't think it's as bad as most people make it out to be, ESPECIALLY if you know how to fall. We do our Shaui Chiao on hard, unpadded carpet and it's not too bad. Sure, concrete is going to be rougher than that, but I don't think it's the end of the world.

We have quite a few sweeps as well w/ a similar philosophy to eagle claw. Our ideal is that we stay upright and leave the attacker on the gound. It's just that in actual practice (for me), it's quite difficult to stay on your feet from any standing takedown, save the ankle sweeps.

Knowing how to fall is part of it, also depends on how you're getting thrown. If they project your chi into the ground you'll fall hard - straight down without a chance to do judio type rolls to break fall. ankle sweeps are great, takes the chi from under them like the dangerous flowing river in the tien shan mountains.

BTW I've used DM in self defence and it worked but not how I intended. Missed the heart point and hit the person in the eye. It's alot harder to hit a moving target then on a pressure point chart. I need more practice.

[Reggie1]

Knowing how to fall is part of it, also depends on how you're getting thrown. If they project your chi into the ground you'll fall hard - straight down without a chance to do judio type rolls to break fall. ankle sweeps are great, takes the chi from under them like the dangerous flowing river in the tien shan mountains.

Yeah we try and make the landings as unpleasant as possible. It's a lot harder to do with somebody who knows how to fall, though. A LOT harder. You really have to put a lot of effort into it, and from what I've experienced, a guy who knows how to fall well can bring you down with him.

BTW I've used DM in self defence and it worked but not how I intended. Missed the heart point and hit the person in the eye. It's alot harder to hit a moving target then on a pressure point chart. I need more practice.

That's too funny! Things never seem to work out the way you want in a self-defense situation.

[SevenStar]

yeah, that's hilarious.

[Piercing Light]

Not hitting the right point... it shows that there are many variables that cannot or aren't being controlled.

Purposes of a takedown can be varied, like aiming to crack their skull open, preparing to run away, as a warning/lesson, but most people who do takedowns want to gain a good position (that is one of dominance).
Survival is it, Kung-fu, gun or even run (or any other possibility).

Would be nice to do some confrontational analysis... though it always retrospective... should be included with modern day elements, maybe like the reality stuff like in the defence agencies.

Anyone do usual drills like getting in and out of a car vs. attacker, and that kind of stuff?

Piercing Light

[Vasquez]

yeah, that's hilarious.

You would have missed out on a good laugh if you had banned me.

[SevenStar]

Not hitting the right point... it shows that there are many variables that cannot or aren't being controlled.

Purposes of a takedown can be varied, like aiming to crack their skull open, preparing to run away, as a warning/lesson, but most people who do takedowns want to gain a good position (that is one of dominance).
Survival is it, Kung-fu, gun or even run (or any other possibility).

Would be nice to do some confrontational analysis... though it always retrospective... should be included with modern day elements, maybe like the reality stuff like in the defence agencies.

Anyone do usual drills like getting in and out of a car vs. attacker, and that kind of stuff?

Piercing Light

I don't teach either of those, as if I were in the car, I'd stay there and keep driving (unless for some reason the car wouldn't move) and if I were out of the car, I wouldn't get in it, unless I had PLENTY of space between myself and my attacker. That said, I do talk about situational awareness - walking several feet away from a building, for example, that way you can glimpse around the corner before you actually walk past it.