Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

[JamesC]

Deep belly laughs gene

[hskwarrior]

O.K., you're the one using multiple exclamation points in all of your posts. Where does it seem like there's anger in my voice?

when did the forum have the capability to communicate using people's voices

[Kellen Bassette]

when did the forum have the capability to communicate using people's voices

Bust out your big type and show them how it's done!

[Syn7]

Yall crazy. Every single one of you!

Arguing over a fight from 50 years ago that has no real significance in itself. Caaaarrrrraaaaaaazzzzzaaaaaayyyyyy!!!!!!!!

[LaterthanNever]

Some math here..next year will mark the 50th anniversary of the match. Thats' 5-0 with a five.


"Why don't you look at your previous posts when you were saying I was a "hatchet man" trying to suck up to Master Wong and tell me who attacked who's character first. "

My hatchet man was regarding Bruce, Linda and anyone who made a claim counter to what the book states/you believe.


"And why would I want to go all the way up to Seattle just to confirm that you are some kind of non-classical kung fu expert? "

I never claimed to be an "expert". If you are going to say "I bet you learned your forms from youtube" then yeah..that's an attack. So I figured..well if he wants me to demonstrate some forms for him, provided he can get up this way, I'd be happy to show him. If you can't handle my reply, then don't make the comment!

Come to think of it..I could put some forms on youtube and link it here. Actually, that would be ironic, not to mention funny..maybe you could learn from me! lol


"but where have I seemed really angry?"

Not just angry, but fanatical and obsessive too! It's almost like watching a Shaw Bros movie(complete w/ bad dubbing and all) and the student who yells "I will avenge my masteerrrrr" as he coughs up blood.


What seems angry? Comments such as:

"I would contact her if that were possible. Do you have her number?"

(I can really see that happening..she picks up the phone and you begin chastising her..like the conversation would even go beyond the 30 second mark )

and

"That’s one of the reasons I eventually became so annoyed with the legions of BL worshipers."(

(I can only speak for myself..am I a fan? Yes. A worshiper..definitely not)

and

"It's an issue because that's the story that's still being told online and in magazines. It's an issue because it's NOT true and yet, people want so badly to believe this myth."

and

"Why wouldn't I want to defend my former sifu? It reflects badly on me and everyone who ever learned from him if people believe these lies about him. Wouldn't you defend your sifu if someone said he was a dishonorable tool? Or did you learn your stuff from youtube videos?"

I mean really SilLum fighter..isn't an article in a mag, a lawsuit on top of that AND now a book sufficient?

and

“I was hoping to discuss the book with people on this thread but instead I get bogged down defending my posts from people like you. Why is it people can be Bruce Lee cheerleaders and dredge up everything about his life again and again and go on and on about how great he was and I can't say my piece on this without being called a hatchet man?”

calling people "Bruce lee cheerleaders" and "people like you",etc...these things seems defensive and unnecessary. And yes..angry.

and

"What I'm really trying to do here is clear up the lies surrounding this event. Call me what you will, but I'm merely acting as a truthsayer here. Based on the evidence, it can't be denied that:"

The fact that..(going from memory) Master William C.C. Chen was supposedly at the event and after his recollection of it , yet a third(or was it a fourth) different opinion(I believe it was he or another high profile instructor) said that it went on for even longer still(30 minutes?) means that with such a wide variances of how long it took, who was hurt, who was not,etc.etc. that I still hold the opinions presented with no greater degree of creedence than those in the Bruce camp. To be fair, it's only right. If the others on the WJM side all agreed in unison about these variables..well then that's s different story.

and lastly:

"I see, this is when all of the hardcore BL fanatics start challenging me to a fight. Why is it always the Bruce Lee fans who want to fight over this particular disagreement? I guess this forum has turned into a bulletin for challenge matches then. It's all so we can see who's style is more beast! "

Whose a hardcore BL "fanatic"? Not me. At no time did I ever challenge you to a fight.
And more overgeneralizing.."always fight"? I saw no evidence of anyone who is a fan or Bruce challenging you..certainly not me!



"In case you didn't notice this thread is SPECIFICALLY about the Bruce Lee / Wong Jack Man fight. Just because this subject isn't mentioned everywhere, on posters and billboards, on TV etc., doesn't mean that it's not mentioned in books, magazines, and websites that are relevant to this particular subject. That's like saying, "Why do people care about whether Shaolin Do is for real at all? Nobody mentions it on cable!"


Aren't you the one who says it mentioned everywhere?

"Just because none of the JKD people mentioned it to you doesn't mean it's not relevant to some people. "

Yippee! Congratulations on knowing your likes and dislikes for what is relevant. And the key is..yeah..it's relevant to "some" people! And yeah..I still stand by that statement, most people I've met even those who study traditional styles really don't care!



"It's relevant to certain students of Wong Jack Man's because we care about how he is portrayed in the media. He's been regarded negatively by a great many people. He's mentioned in a negative light in Teri Tom's books, in Linda Lee's biography, in countless articles featuring guys like Richard Bustillo and Leo Fong, on the Bruce Lee Foundation's website, etc., etc., etc. The whole conflict between them was featured and expanded on in the movie, "Dragon, The Bruce Lee Story," a 14 million dollar movie put out by Universal Pictures (I guess that's not big enough for you.). God, I feel like I'm talking to a wall! Once again, if you're not interested in this particular subject, then just don't comment on it."


Why did they fight then? If it was not because of the innacuracy of the statement that it was due to WJM teaching non chinese? After all, if you were his former student, you should have the direct line answer shouldn't you? That is what is far more interesting to me. There had to be some reason that both men agreed to touch hands,


"Whoa, calm down there sparky! Who's the one who sounds angry and frustrated again? "

Not angry. Emphasizing a word..it's almost a half a decade ago.
__________________

[Syn7]

You really need to learn how to use the quote function. I don't even read your shit because I couldn't be bothered to read the opinion of anyone who can't figure out a simple quote function. You should work on that.

[LaterthanNever]

that's a funny criticism from a forum member who is listed as "banned" under his screename.

[Syn7]

Yeah, cause clearly I can't post in these forums.



You're smert!

[LaRoux]

I never claimed to be an "expert". If you are going to say "I bet you learned your forms from youtube" then yeah..that's an attack. So I figured..well if he wants me to demonstrate some forms for him, provided he can get up this way, I'd be happy to show him. _

There's thing called youtube. I think you understand about it, because you've been talking about it.

If you were serious about breaking out the deadly forms, you could have simply posted them on youtube.

Him showing up isn't going to somehow make your forms better.

[LaterthanNever]

"There's thing called youtube. I think you understand about it, because you've been talking about it."

Nope. I live in the bottom of a mine shaft with no ties to outward civilization. For that matter what is a "tube"?(of any kind)


"If you were serious about breaking out the deadly forms, you could have simply posted them on youtube."

I could have but he could always turn around and say that it wasn't me and someone else. So I said "come up here"...though I pretty much knew he would not.

"Him showing up isn't going to somehow make your forms better. "

Whoever said that was my goal?

[Syn7]

"If you were serious about breaking out the deadly forms, you could have simply posted them on youtube."

I could have but he could always turn around and say that it wasn't me and someone else. So I said "come up here"...though I pretty much knew he would not.

That's a huge copout. It doesn't take a genius to help authenticate ones own video.

[LaterthanNever]

Done..then it is solved. I will post some

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Originally posted by LaterthanNever
Some math here..next year will mark the 50th anniversary of the match. Thats' 5-0 with a five.

With a 5 and a 0, wow, that's a long time. You know what else happened a long time ago? Huo Man Jia fought a Japanese judo master in 1910, 103 years ago. They made a movie about him and his exploits (Fearless). In this case we're talking about none other than the world famous Bruce Lee. Ya, this happened 50 years ago and guess what? Just like the events in Hou Man Jia's life, which was over twice as long ago, people are STILL talking about it. So what's your point?

My hatchet man was regarding Bruce, Linda and anyone who made a claim counter to what the book states/you believe.

Well, then you're a “hatchet man” for refuting me without having read the book.

Actually, that would be ironic, not to mention funny..maybe*you*could learn from*me! lol

Ya, that would be funny. If you ever make it down here to LA I could “show” you some of my Bak Siu Lum if you'd like. Wait, that sounds too much like a challenge. You can just see what it looks like on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bio8rXx5zA (nice production values Gene)

Not just angry, but fanatical and obsessive too! It's almost like watching a Shaw Bros movie(complete w/ bad dubbing and all) and the student who yells "I will avenge my masteerrrrr" as he coughs up blood.

In none of the comments you mentioned after that did I use all of the caps and exclamation points that you use. And in this one:

(I can really see that happening..she picks up the phone and you begin chastising her..like the conversation would even go beyond the 30 second mark)

You're just assuming that's what I would do!

I mean really SilLum fighter..isn't an article in a mag, a lawsuit on top of that AND now a book sufficient?

One little article from 1980 that hardly anyone seems to know about, a lawsuit that no one knows anything about (except former students of Wong's, Linda Lee, and the people at the now defunct Inside Kung Fu Magazine), and a book that isn't getting national press (now anyway). That's just not up to par with a motion picture, a series, all of the books, articles, websites, where it's displayed and mentioned how my teacher, Wong Jack Man, tried getting Bruce to close his school because he was teaching gwai lo. The answer to your question is no, those few things aren't sufficient. They're not sufficient because most people out there believe the myth that's been perpetuated all of these years.

calling people "Bruce lee cheerleaders" and "people like you",etc...these things seems defensive and unnecessary. And yes..angry.

Wow, if you think that's angry you should meet my wife.

The fact that..(going from memory) Master William C.C. Chen was supposedly at the event and after his recollection of it , yet a third(or was it a fourth) different opinion(I believe it was he or another high profile instructor) said that it went on for even longer still(30 minutes?) means that with such a wide variances of how long it took, who was hurt, who was not,etc.etc. that I still hold the opinions presented with no greater degree of creedence than those in the Bruce camp. To be fair, it's only right. If the others on the WJM side all agreed in unison about these variables..well then that's s different story.

It wasn't William C.C. Chen, it was another Tai Chi master by the name of William Chen (or Bill Chen). And no one said it lasted 30 minutes. The stories given by the two main witnesses who came with Wong Jack Man, Bill Chen and David Chin, are pretty much the same. These men were interviewed at different times, years apart, and their stories still seem to match up. In the Bruce Lee camp the stories are all over the place. Both Bruce and Linda gave different details on how the fight supposedly ended and Richard Bustilllo said in an article that Bruce told him he choked Wong Jack Man out with a neck choke (totally different from the “official” versions).

Yippee! Congratulations on knowing your likes and dislikes for what is relevant. And the key is..yeah..it's relevant to "some" people! And yeah..I still stand by that statement, most people I've met even those who study traditional styles really don't care!

Well, it's certainly relevant to practitioners of JKD Mr. student of Jesse Glover's.

Why*did*they fight then? If it was not because of the innacuracy of the statement that it was due to WJM teaching non chinese? After all, if you were his former student, you should have the direct line answer shouldn't you? That is what is far more interesting to me. There had to be some reason that both men agreed to touch hands,

All I can say is read the book. I think you meant, “If it was not because of the inaccuracy of the statement that it was due to BRUCE LEE teaching non-Chinese?” In case you didn't know, I am not Chinese. As I already stated earlier in this thread, during my time in Wong Jack Man's class I learned with people of more than one race, nationality, and gender. Suffice it to say, that was not the issue that brought on the fight. The myth that it was over race came years later after Bruce's death.

Not angry. Emphasizing a word..it's almost a half a decade ago.

You mean “half a century ago”. Once again, so what? This fight actually happened closer to 49 years ago. People are still talking about other significant events like the JFK assassination which happened 50 years ago, how Lincoln got shot which happened 159 years ago. These things seem to matter to conspiracy theorists and historians. This fight has historical significance to JKD practitioners, fans of Bruce Lee, and martial arts historians alike. If it doesn't matter to you then why are you even leaving comments on this thread?

[Lucas]

you guys all heard when my wife said how i held bawang down and beat him until i made him relent and surrender to my manliness, right? its right there in the movie script! oh and how after that i did a backflip out the window and landed on my harley and peeled out all bad ass like down the street.

[Raipizo]

you guys all heard when my wife said how i held bawang down and beat him until i made him relent and surrender to my manliness, right? its right there in the movie script! oh and how after that i did a backflip out the window and landed on my harley and peeled out all bad ass like down the street.

I'd believe it, the end part that is. Bawang studies under wombat combat. No mortal man can beat him.