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Thread: Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

  1. #301
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    Ah but you see he has been my Wombat Kombat master for long time. I have learn his secrets. he tried to stop me from teaching wombat kombat to the people with the yellow hairs, because he hates them so much.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  2. #302
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    "With a 5 and a 0, wow, that's a long time. You know what else happened a long time ago? Huo Man Jia fought a Japanese judo master in 1910, 103 years ago. They made a movie about him and his exploits (Fearless). In this case we're talking about none other than the world famous Bruce Lee. Ya, this happened 50 years ago and guess what? Just like the events in Hou Man Jia's life, which was over twice as long ago, people are STILL talking about it. So what's your point?"

    My point is..one can talk about lots of things and do it in the context of not really believing that making an issue out of one facet of it(Ie: that your master was portrayed in a bad light) that by doing so, it's going to cause some radical type of shift in the consciousness of everyone who has ever seen a BL movie, read a book of his, studies kung fu or any martial art for that matter, or studies Wing Chun, JKD or any other associated arts. It's akin to someone thinking that because there is a difference of opinion about the Shaolin temple burning down(some say it did not) and because there is discussion about it, that the people on the side of the "yes, it did in fact burn" are going to admit in unision "wow, we sure apologize for our ignorance" by stating our opinion to the contrary. And if people did believe (as a result of your protesting) that Master WJM was not as he was claimed to be, then would anything change on such a grand scale? Doubtful..people would still continue training in their style, politics in MA would still exist, and yes..even the truly delusional would still believe in Sin Kwang The and his claims that he's "Grandmaster of Shaolin-Do" or whatever. It just seems like the means do not justify the ends. Master WJM has done a commendable job in setting the record straight and for that I salute him.


    "Well, then you're a “hatchet man” for refuting me without having read the book. "

    I never said I was perfect

    "Ya, that would be funny. If you ever make it down here to LA I could “show” you some of my Bak Siu Lum if you'd like. Wait, that sounds too much like a challenge. You can just see what it looks like on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bio8rXx5zA (nice production values Gene)"

    What an honor it is sir!! You mean "SilLumFighter" is none other than the famous Master Kwong Wing Lam all along?
    If you are going to resort to tactics like saying I learn my moves from youtube, then why not post some North Shaolin sets of *YOU* doing the patterns?


    "In none of the comments you mentioned after that did I use all of the caps and exclamation points that you use. "

    No its' your choice of words, rather than the caps and exclamation marks that come across as intolerant

    "You're just assuming that's what I would do!"

    It's a legit assumption. Why would someone ask for her # unless they were planning on giving her a piece of their mind?(and the fact that you express your umbrage with her as a platform to the inquiry..even moreso)

    That's just not up to par with a motion picture, a series, all of the books, articles, websites, where it's displayed and mentioned how my teacher, Wong Jack Man, tried getting Bruce to close his school because he was teaching gwai lo. The answer to your question is no, those few things aren't sufficient. They're not sufficient because most people out there believe the myth that's been perpetuated all of these years."

    Well then why are you not contacting some of the motion picture people w/ a proposal or penning an article in one of the major mags then for everyone to see? If you've got the motivation to spar with me or anyone else who raises an eyebrow, then do something which would make more of an impact.


    "Well, it's certainly relevant to practitioners of JKD Mr. student of Jesse Glover's."

    None I've ever spoken to. Maybe so. But that's like saying it's relevant to myself and any other citizen of the USA that Christopher Columbus "discovered" America(when in fact he only reached the US Indies). Yeah..I remember learning that in school, but I don't give it a second thought really. It certainly doesn't affect how I go about living my day.


    "All I can say is read the book. I think you meant, “If it was not because of the inaccuracy of the statement that it was due to BRUCE LEE teaching non-Chinese?” In case you didn't know, I am not Chinese. As I already stated earlier in this thread, during my time in Wong Jack Man's class I learned with people of more than one race, nationality, and gender. Suffice it to say, that was not the issue that brought on the fight. The myth that it was over race came years later after Bruce's death."

    If the content of the book was a synopsis of the fight then it doesn't seem likely that an alternate theory of why BL and WJM fought would be mentioned. You mean to say in your time w/ Master WJM you never asked him what the real reason that they both touched hands was for?(if not for the more popular, yet as you claim innacurate version of how it happened)

  3. #303
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    Haha, this thread is still going on.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas View Post
    Ah but you see he has been my Wombat Kombat master for long time. I have learn his secrets. he tried to stop me from teaching wombat kombat to the people with the yellow hairs, because he hates them so much.
    Ah yes but he has still not taught you yellow dragon stirs the water, you may stand a chance against him, but be careful. The last person who dared to challenge Bawang was a deadly chi sao master, needless to say Bawang defeated him and gave him 50 lashes with a wet noodle.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raipizo View Post
    Ah yes but he has still not taught you yellow dragon stirs the water, you may stand a chance against him, but be careful. The last person who dared to challenge Bawang was a deadly chi sao master, needless to say Bawang defeated him and gave him 50 lashes with a wet noodle.
    That wasn't a wet noodle...
    Psalms 144:1
    Praise be my Lord my Rock,
    He trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle !

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjuro_ronin View Post
    That wasn't a wet noodle...
    Half right. It WAS wet.
    The weakest of all weak things is a virtue that has not been tested in the fire.
    ~ Mark Twain

    Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit.
    ~ Joe Lewis

    A warrior may choose pacifism; others are condemned to it.
    ~ Author unknown

    "You don't feel lonely.Because you have a lively monkey"

    "Ninja can HURT the Spartan, but the Spartan can KILL the Ninja"

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Siu Lum Fighter View Post
    I see, this is when all of the hardcore BL fanatics start challenging me to a fight. Why is it always the Bruce Lee fans who want to fight over this particular disagreement? I guess this forum has turned into a bulletin for challenge matches then. It's all so we can see who's style is more beast!
    Uhm...I was thinking it could be cool to talk about martial arts.

    But we could fight if that's what you want !

    And for the record, I'm a grad student, I don't have the luxury of being fanatical

  8. #308
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    Siu Lum Fighter,

    If you'd be so kind, please create a bit of vacancy in your inbox. I'd like to send you a PM and it's crammed to capacity. Nothing vitriolic, hate filled and certainly not anything challenging. Thank you.

    LTN

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake View Post
    Half right. It WAS wet.
    Well thats the last time I let YOU watch my challenge matches.
    For whoso comes amongst many shall one day find that no one man is by so far the mightiest of all.

  10. #310
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    Originally Posted by LaterthanNever
    ...Doubtful..people would still continue training in their style, politics in MA would still exist, and yes..even the truly delusional would still believe in Sin Kwang The and his claims that he's "Grandmaster of Shaolin-Do" or whatever. It just seems like the means do not justify the ends. Master WJM has done a commendable job in setting the record straight and for that I salute him.
    WJM actually didn't really bother setting the record straight in his later years as a teacher. This always bothered certain students like myself because despite what you keep saying, this fight has been, and is still being debated on many online forums with people saying all manner of insulting things about him. It’s been mentioned in many magazine articles, and, once again, it’s been featured in a major motion picture. In the face of all of this WJM didn’t really do anything to defend his reputation despite all of the things that were being said and published about him throughout the years. So I’m glad to see that you’re actually commending him for "setting the record straight" (if you are indeed being sincere), but it’s all for naught, because he really didn't do anything to combat any of the disparaging things that were being said about him. Some Japanese press people came to his class one time wanting to interview him but he turned them away. He seemed satisfied teaching his small class throughout the years without the need to expand and create something bigger.

    JKD, on the other hand, seemed to be this ever-growing, latest greatest style that people charged a fortune to learn. I'm not saying there aren't some good things about JKD but due to the exponential growth of schools teaching his style of fighting and his still ever-growing fan base, there's only been one story about it's inception that has ever been believed by the general public.

    "Well, it's certainly relevant to practitioners of JKD Mr. student of Jesse Glover's."

    None I've ever spoken to. Maybe so. But that's like saying it's relevant to myself and any other.. citizen of the USA that Christopher Columbus "discovered" America(when in fact he only reached the US Indies). Yeah..I remember learning that in school, but I don't give it a second thought really. It certainly doesn't affect how I go about living my day.
    Despite none of the JKD people you talked to feeling it's relevant (didn't you say you didn't even bring it up?), it's as relevant to them as George Washington is to every U.S. Citizen. Just like there wouldn't be a United States without the founding fathers, there wouldn't even be a style known as Jeet Kune Do without this particular fight. Let me ask you something, if it didn't have such a huge effect on Bruce Lee then why is it almost always portrayed in every biopic of Bruce Lee? If it wasn't so important, why is it on so many people's websites, in so many movies, documentaries, shows, books, etc? If it's not relevant to JKD then why is it on all of these websites:
    http://bruceleefoundation.com/index....e-Do/pid/10606
    http://www.thejkdbrotherhood.com/his.../leo-fong.html
    http://www.worldwidedojo.com/reality...and-jkd-years/
    http://masterwongacademy.com/system/...d-history.html
    http://www.everythingwingchun.com/br...ooks-s/205.htm
    http://www.network54.com/Forum/10355.../Wong+Jack+Man
    http://jkdtalk.com/archive/index.php/t-2485.html
    It's even on the wikipedia page about Bruce Lee:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee

    That's just the tip of the iceberg. Why don't you search terms like, “Bruce Lee / Wong Jack Man,” “Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do,” or just “Jeet Kune Do” on Google and tell me again how it's not relevant to JKD or any of it's practitioners.

    And this debate doesn't affect how I go about living my day or whether I can still manage to get some practice in so I don't know where you're getting that I'm being all obsessive. Maybe I just type fast and since this subject interests me and I have a lot to say about it I guess it might look that way. It would seem it interests you as well considering the amount you've typed about it.
    Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 02-11-2013 at 03:18 PM.
    The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)

  11. #311
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    Originally Posted by Fa Xing
    Uhm...I was thinking it could be cool to talk about martial arts.

    But we could fight if that's what you want !

    And for the record, I'm a grad student, I don't have the luxury of being fanatical
    You'll have to excuse me. It's my knee jerk reaction to assume that people want to actually challenge me whenever I'm debating about this subject and they start asking about my physical location. In the past I've gotten private messages from people (on this forum actually) saying things like, "You keep asking for trouble, you will get it."
    The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)

  12. #312
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    "Despite none of the JKD people you talked to feeling it's relevant (didn't you say you didn't even bring it up?), "

    That is correct. I did not bring it up. But when the typical "how did you get involved in MA?" came up, noone I've ever spoken to in the JKD community ever once said "It was beacuse Bruce took flak from Master WJM ..so..etc.etc"

    Actually, you've admitted you are non-Chinese. Isn't that proof that the statement about his supposed intolerance of Bruce teaching non chinese is false?

  13. #313
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

  14. #314
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    Indeed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kellen Bassette View Post
    Doug has this covered for us with a new thread in the media forum...bruce lee/wong jack man movie
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
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  15. #315
    Quote Originally Posted by GeneChing View Post
    Doug has this covered for us with a new thread in the media forum...bruce lee/wong jack man movie
    I missed that, 1000 apologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    This is 100% TCMA principle. It may be used in non-TCMA also. Since I did learn it from TCMA, I have to say it's TCMA principle.
    Quote Originally Posted by YouKnowWho View Post
    We should not use "TCMA is more than combat" as excuse for not "evolving".

    You can have Kung Fu in cooking, it really has nothing to do with fighting!

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