bruce lee is a joke. wong jack man is a joke. your book is sh1t.
the ass assassin
bruce lee is a joke. wong jack man is a joke. your book is sh1t.
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6 posts, all promotional. She's gotta go!
Registered User
Originally Posted by Siu Lum Fighter
Good post !
I agree BL was a good showman, but only touched the surface of most MA's and was in no real position to comment on any of them.
His WC was only minimal at best, and he tried to base his JKD around a beginners view of WC, which is what most WCers Seem to do today also, that is why WC is so watered down to just mostly flowery hands, so I would liken JKD as more of a combination or collection of watered down arts.
But he also fell into the young people syndrome of he knows it all. If he had lived longer he would have grown out of it, if he was smart and did not sell out to greed.
Last edited by Robinhood; 01-17-2013 at 10:35 AM.
Registered User
Wow, I just got finished with the new book on the BL - WJM fight (http://www.amazon.com/Showdown-Oakla...own+in+oakland) and I have to say I was totally floored! This is the definitive work on the subject. Not only are there two detailed eye witness accounts (including one from Grandmaster David Chin) but copies of the actual Chinese newspapers that were involved in reporting on this event! This books blows away the argument that the fight was over Bruce Lee’s right to teach non-Chinese. There are eye witness accounts of what transpired at the Sun Sing Theatre in San Francisco when Bruce put out his challenge to the public. Ming Lum gives his account of what transpired and even Greglon Lee, the son of Bruce Lee’s friend, James Yim Lee, weighs in on the matter. They all agree that the match was not over whether Bruce Lee could teach non-Chinese people. As Sifu Wong himself said, “Even Bruce Lee never said these things.” If that is still going to be the stance of the Bruce Lee Foundation or any other official JKD organization then they’ll be ignoring the facts.
Many of these facts I've already laid out in previous posts throughout the years and since I am a former student of Wong Sifu's people may have thought I was being biased. But this should be the final say on the matter. There's detailed maps and pictures of where everything took place including the former location of Bruce Lee's studio. This book is a must read for all martial artists! Not only because it details what happened in this controversial match but it shows a lot of the history of the Bay Area martial arts scene back in the 1960's and details some of Bruce Lee's life before he was famous.
Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 12-28-2012 at 02:45 AM.
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
Defender of Truth
That looks pretty staged to me.Bruce Lee and Ted Wong sparring:
I have read many times, that while Bruce was living in LA, that Tuesdays and Thursdays classes took place in Chinatown. While a select few were invited over to Bruce's house wednesday night for sparring, and Saturday for more training. Not sure about the lop sao stuff, I've never heard that before.
In fact, I've read from about every student either through print or word of mouth that he would spar with them regularly and wipe the floor with them.
As far as sparring with his students, I'm pretty sure just about all of them either had no fighting experience or came from point fighting karate backgrounds.
IMO, Lee wouldn't have had a chance against even a medium level Muay Thai fighter.
Bagua, Xingyi, and Taiji
And I see the book was written by a student of Wong Jack Man, so yeah.
Registered User
That shouldn't matter since there's enough commentaries by people who weren't Wong Jack Man's students. Ming Lum gives his account of what was happening at the time and he didn't have a stake in the whole thing either way. Neither David Chin nor Bill Chen were WJM's students and they did not collaborate when giving their accounts. None of these men have even had contact with each other throughout the years at all. It's not like Rick Wing took what they said and modified it so it sounded better for the "Wong Jack Man side". It should be noted that Rick is a fan of Bruce Lee's. I myself can count myself as somewhat of a fan (but more because of his movies than anything else). I really don't think people have a right to criticize this particular book if they haven't read it.Originally Posted by Chud
And I see the book was written by a student of Wong Jack Man, so yeah.
Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 12-30-2012 at 01:20 AM.
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
Modified Martial Artist
And that opinion is based on what, exactly?
BTW, there are eye-witness accounts of him fighting a MT fighter in Thailand during the filming of Big Boss, and even Dan Inosanto has said on multiple occasions that BL could have jumped in the ring and become a top ranked lightweight in the 1960s..
Last edited by Fa Xing; 01-05-2013 at 01:48 PM.
Modified Martial Artist
Sounds interesting, I will have to get it at some point soon. Currently, I am reading Greglon Lee's books on his dad and BL: The Dragon and Tiger Vol 1 and 2. The info from these books is very informative since I am more familiar with BL's life, training, and teaching in LA.
Registered User
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
Registered User
Some interesting quotes from Showdown in Oakland:
Bruce Lee’s friend, Michael Lai, said, “Bruce hated to lose. If he lost, he would have some excuse and never admitted that he had been beaten fairly. He had ‘nga tsat,’ which is to say he was very cheeky and strutted like a peac0ck. He always acted very superior.”
Lee's sihing, Wong Shun Leung, said, "Bruce Lee was a good fighter, but not as good as movies have portrayed him - almost invincible. People used to see Bruce Lee and have kung fu dreams. They wanted to do the same things he did and duplicate his methods. Unfortunately, it seems nobody wants to wake up."
In 2005 The Contra Costa Times interviewed Lee's friend, George Lee, who was at the fight:
"George offered a little more about the infamous battle that Bruce fought to keep the right to teach martial arts to non-Chinese. He was actually on the scene. As Linda was pregnant, Bruce told her to stay outside because he didn't know what could happen and George stayed outside with Linda."
That last one's interesting. Bill Chen, who was there, said someone kept peeking through the door that led to the back room of the studio. George Lee was supposed to be there to back Lee up should the situation escalate. If we are to assume that Linda stayed with George in the next room, then she couldn't have seen anything in detail since George was trying not to overtly make his presence known and was opening and closing the door slightly just to make sure everything was OK.
Last edited by Siu Lum Fighter; 01-14-2013 at 05:08 PM.
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
Junior Member
"To be fair to Linda Lee she had sold the rights to her book (which is interesting and WAY different to the film) many years previously, and she had no creative control over the film whatsoever. I think the producer's paid some lip service to her, but 90 percent of that film is pure fantasy. "
I don't doubt it. Even Jesse didn't want his name used in the movie so they decided on "Jerome Sprout".
As for Dan being the toughest..tough or not tough is a matter of personal tolerance(if one is on the recieving end that is) for pain and what ones frame of reference. Not sure if any of you have touched hands w/ Jesse but even at 77, the man was strong as an ox! I don't mean that Guro Inosanto is not tough..I sure would not want to fight him ever. Why is it even an issue as to which of Bruces students was the "toughest"? Tell you what..dig up Bruce and ask him!
Sil Lum fighter..I'm not sure what your agenda is, but it does not seem honorable. I take it with a sn such as "Sil Lum fighter" that you are on a personal crusade of sorts to diminish Bruce since he did not promote Northern Shaolin such as Master Wong Jack Man? Either way, you are a "hatchet man". Please do something more constructive with your time.
Registered User
Why are you making an issue out of me just mentioning I thought Inosanto was the toughest? That's just what it seemed like to me from a distance. Sure, I could be wrong, but who cares.
What I'm really trying to do here is clear up the lies surrounding this event. Call me what you will, but I'm merely acting as a truthsayer here. Based on the evidence, it can't be denied that:
1) The fight was not over whether or not Bruce could teach non-Chinese.
2) Bruce Lee didn't win this fight and certainly didn't beat Wong into submission on the floor like Linda says.
If Linda is right, and Bruce really did beat Wong senseless on the floor, then Bruce was lying when he said that he just held his fist over him and got him to say, "I give up" AND Ming Lum was lying when he said Wong had no injuries on his face at all except for a scratch above his eye. Does it still seem unrealistic that she wasn't even in the same room? The room was only 15 feet wide and she was pregnant. People who were there sometimes had to move out of the way as they fought. It doesn't seem realistic that George Lee lied when he said that Bruce told her to "wait outside."
Also, the notion that the fight was over Bruce's right to teach non-Chinese originated with her. Before she claimed this in her biography, nobody said this. This was never mentioned by any of Bruce's students. During my time in Wong Jack Man's class I learned with African Americans, Caucasian people from the U.S. and Europe, and Asian people. So it would seem Linda was publicly making claims about a Northern Shaolin grandmaster that were not true at all. How honorable is that?
The three components of combat are 1) Speed, 2) Guts and 3) Techniques. All three components must go hand in hand. One component cannot survive without the others." (WJM - June 14, 1974)
Junior Member
"Why are you making an issue out of me just mentioning I thought Inosanto was the toughest? "
No sir. I am making an issue with what seems to be (from a distance) your whole reason for being!(ie: bringing up a fight which took place probably right around the time I was BORN!!)
"What I'm really trying to do here is clear up the lies surrounding this event. "
Is that so? It seems alot more likely that you are trying to suck up to Master WJM in an effort to attain some type of fringe benefit.(ie: you'll get preferential treatment..or maybe he'll make you a disciple or something else). I can't image that Master WJM would even really care about a fight that judging from your emotional maturity..happened either before you were born or were just a lad!
"1) The fight was not over whether or not Bruce could teach non-Chinese."
Again..I fail to see what lesson is to be gained in the big picture here. It's like if someone has a degree in neurobiology and asking that person what their feelings are about what was the favorite flavor ice cream of the man who discovered the neurotransmitter acetylcholine?(in other words..not really important). Even if as you say...it was NOT over whether or not he could teach non-Chinese..why is this an issue years and years and years later?
"2) Bruce Lee didn't win this fight and certainly didn't beat Wong into submission on the floor like Linda says."
With Bruce dead, pretty much ANYONE who was either there or was not there can say he lost. And even if he did lose..so what?? Muhammed Ali lost some fights..yet noone can deny he was perhaps the greatest boxer who ever lived.
" Does it still seem unrealistic that she wasn't even in the same room?"
Why do you need to speak FOR Master Wong Jack Man? Again..I come back to my original thought here. If you were not in the same room(highly likely), then I think you should not be wearing your bravado..er..lack of authority on the subject on your sleeve.
" During my time in Wong Jack Man's class "
Tada!!! Motive exposed folks!! The emperor has no clothes! Can I direct your attention to the pink elephant in the room please? I was right..you are noing more than a sychophant!
" So it would seem Linda was publicly making claims about a Northern Shaolin grandmaster that were not true at all. "
For someone so vocal, why not contact Linda Lee-Emery and ask her directly instead of doing such a passive agressive thing as bad mouthing her, Bruce and anyone else affiliated with Bruce?
"How honorable is that? "
How honorable is it trash talking a dead man? If Master Wong Jack Man is still ranting about this years later..something is awry. My feeling is that if Bruce were still alive, he would have moved on like anyone with any intelligence. While we are bantering about honor, how honorable is it for a student of a skilled master to engage in back talk behind the scenes? I call it cowardice!
Last edited by LaterthanNever; 01-15-2013 at 10:42 PM.
Heads or Tails?
Laterthannever - if you can, get the book, it's not that expensive, and is very well written. I'm a huge BL fan, and got involved with the CMA's solely because of him.
The reason why this fight has historical and cultural relevance is because it changed BL, it changed his perspectives on how he felt the MA's should be studied, practiced, thought about, and executed. This basically affected millions of people. So it bears some importance on a historical front as to what exactly happened in this encounter that made him change everything, which hyperbolically speaking, changed the world.
Whatever SLF's motives are, doesn't really matter to me.
At any rate, it's a good read. I highly recommend it.
The 10 Elements of Choy Lay Fut:
Kum, Na, Gwa, Sau, Chop, Pow, Kup, Biu, Ding, Jong
The 13 Principles of Taijiquan:
Ward Off, Roll Back, Press, Push, Pluck, Elbow, Shoulder, Split, Forward, Back, Left, Right, Central Equilibrium
And it doesn't hurt to practice stuff from:
Mounts, Guards, and Side Mounts!
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