Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

[Lucas]

wanna fight about it?

[bawang]

wanna fight about it?

on my way in my helicopter right now


does this match allow steroids or magical talisman?

[Lucas]

no steriods but you can use charms, talismans and enchanted daggers.

[bawang]

can i use nigerian spells

nigerian spells are 20% more effective than taoist spells

[Lucas]

Nigerian spells are actually the prefered choice of magical vehicle.

Here's my collection for my Nigerian magic talismans. Notice how fresh some of them are. I have the good connections.

[bawang]

can i inhale demonic spirits into my body to enhance my combat prowess?

[LaterthanNever]

"Well come out here to Seattle and I'll show you*

Maybe you can come down here to LA and show me."

OK , after this thread I am not commenting anymore. You are the one who feels it necessary to resort to ad homenim attacks on my character by saying "you prob learned your forms from youtube videos" and so I said "come to Seattle and I'll show you"..so your REPLY indicates that you are instead looking for some sort of challenge match!

In a word: no


" I think what you really have a problem with is that I'm sticking up for Wong Jack Man. Why is it always bad when someone speaks up for Wong Jack Man's side in this? "

Have you ever heard of overgeneralizing? ALWAYS bad,etc. I never said it was "bad"(a value judgement). You are perfectly entitled to stick up for Master Wong. As I am perfectly entitled to stick up for Bruce!


"When I said, “Is that how it works in your school?", it was a reference to your statement that it seemed like I was “trying to suck up to Master WJM in an effort to attain some type of fringe benefit.”

Yes. I still maintain that. Your excess "why don't people listen to me" with such an anger in your voice! And if everyone who has ever studied kung fu regardless of style and everyone for the next 100 years were to read the book, the odds are, the martial arts community would continue to go on like it has been. And no, that's not how it worked in my time w/ Jesse as my instructor.


"I don't train under people who operate like this. My teachers have judged me by my character and how proficient I am with their art. I don't understand why you're bringing up Jesse Glover. I've never had anything against him but it's my guess you would be more than ready do a character assassination of Sifu Wong."

So you are PARANOID too eh? You are trying to turn this into a posthumous civil war in order to stroke your insecutity.I publically ask you to show me where I did a "character assasination" of your Master?! There is this thing called "stirring the pot" which you are doing. I studied 3 Northern styles before I was w/ Jesse(Ba Ji, Ying Jow Pai and Mi-Jong Lo Han).



Um...he has issued statements. There was the Official Karate article back in 1980 (http://www.kungfu.net/brucelee.html). There was the lawsuit. It was largely because of Bruce Lee's fame and the fanaticism of his fans that he gave up on trying to stem the tide of BS a long time ago. If everyone cared less about this story then why does it show up everywhere? It shows up on countless websites and in countless martial arts magazine articles. It was worked into the major motion picture, “Dragon, The Bruce Lee Story”.

Hey, good for him that he issued statements! And now what? I think you are upset that in spite of the article AND lawsuit on top of that, people don't give either development as much airplay(so to speak) as the alternatve version of the story. And EVERYWHERE? I don't see it on billboards in downtown Seattle by the Space Needle, on TV during the Superbowl commercial and in every article and advertisement in magazines. Other than a mention here and there in a website about Bruce or JKD, I don't see it all that much. There are literally hundreds of martial arts website out there of different schools, martial arts associations, philosophies,etc. If I said that of that #, if it got 3% of the total mention of the content of the collective large # of those websites,movies, books,etc. that would be very generous indeed.

Along with Bruce Lee himself, almost every JKD instructor and friend of Bruce's who ever lived has cited this particular match as the reason Bruce quit practicing Wing Chun."

Jesse never mentioned it on his own volition and free will(did comment on it very briefly once when asked) and neither did Taky Kimura when I met him. And neither did Leroy Garcia when I met him either. For that matter, Linda didn't bring it up when I met her and when I spoke with Pat Strong on the phone we talked about Bruce, Jesse and some others and the match never ONCE came up!

"In almost every version of this story out there, the reason for the dispute was because Bruce was teaching non-Chinese. Oh, but I guess everyone could care less."

There are those who say the earth was flat, that Bigfoot exists, and even if that was true, it wouldn't make one bit of difference in how I live my life! And yes..I still maintain that. No single person I've ever met over the years has once said "yeah, I started kung fu, karate, aikido, judo, JKD, silat,etc. because of the inaccuracy of what they said about Bruce teaching non chinese". Technically, if Bruce taught a Japanese or Korean man, he would have violated the same policy back then. By the way..are you Chinese?


"People on this forum care about martial history. If it doesn't interest you then maybe you should go back to practicing. I already did. "

Double bind and contradictory statement. You can't have it both ways. By saying "I already did"(went back to practicing) you are implying it doesn't take as high a priority.

"I have been telling people to read the book! It baffles and amazes me that hardly anyone has. I can't believe how people start threads on this forum about every rinky-dink thing imaginable. "

You feel that just because people are not as vocal about it that therefore they may not agree. Do you have a camera on everyone who goes to e-bay and puts in their CC # and buys it? Does the author of the book send you an hourly, daily and weekly figure with a tally of #s of how many people buy it? It sounds like you will not be satisfied until Pres. Obama reads an official statement on TV that it didn't go down like it was claimed.




"They go on and on and on about whether Shaolin Do is for real. Meanwhile a well-researched book about what was arguably the most significant fight in Bruce Lee's life goes unnoticed. I was hoping to discuss the book with people on this thread but instead I get bogged down defending my posts from people like you."


Discussing? I don't see a "discussion" at all? I see a "you must believe this view promoted in the book and if not, this is terrible and horrible!" It's a miracle you don't have high blood pressure and an ulcer by now!



"Once again, I have been telling people to read it but besides one person on here, no one's actually commented on it."

I just got done reading the Hsing-Yi book written by Master Lian Shou Yu. It's incredible!! But I didn't comment on it on this forum. Does that mean I didn't read it? If I commented on every martial arts book I read, I'd have several hundred posts devoted just to books!


"It's not because I'm trying to get some sort of special treatment that I'm trying to set the record straight on this. I haven't even talked to Sifu Wong since 2005. I just don't feel it's right that this version of the story is still perpetuated without any sort of rebuttal.

An article in a martial arts mag in 1980, a lawsuit and your "cheerleeding" antics about this innacuracy or supposed inaccuracy qualify as a rebuttal 300%. It's over. The fight is over. Your instructor has moved on. It's done! The fight took place IN 1964!!! I was MINUS three years old then!! If I had to guess, you were not born yet either! So, no..I don't really care. And IF Bruce really WAS the person who broke the centuries old code of teaching non chinese..I'm sure glad he did!! But this is irrelevant..he was NOT the first one!

[LaRoux]

Who cares who won the fight? Neither one of them was that great of a fighter in the first place.

[LaterthanNever]

"Who cares who won the fight? Neither one of them was that great of a fighter in the first place."

That's right! We ALL know that LaRoux could have beaten BOTH of them with one hand tied behind his back, macular degeneration, a bum knee and occasional low back pain!

Would have mentioned the obvious in my other post but forgot:

1.) If the fight was NOT b/c Bruce taught non Chinese..then WHY DID THEY FIGHT THEN?

2.) Did Master Wong only teach Chinese in those years? Furthermore, does he have a policy of only accepting non chinese now?(or did he in the years left up to his retirement). If the answer is "no", then truly the whole matter is irrelevant in the current day and age...

[GeneChing]

...mostly because it's held the attention of the martial arts community for so long. It's a true testament to the iconic status of Bruce Lee.

That being said, I also find the story of Bruce Lee's 'fight' with Burt Ward fascinating too. Bruce is fascinating.

[LaterthanNever]

"That being said, I also find the story of Bruce Lee's 'fight' with Burt Ward fascinating too. Bruce is fascinating. "

Hard to pick a fav. I'm a fan of Bruce and also Batman! Decisions..decisions..

[LaRoux]

"Who cares who won the fight? Neither one of them was that great of a fighter in the first place."

That's right! We ALL know that LaRoux could have beaten BOTH of them with one hand tied behind his back, macular degeneration, a bum knee and occasional low back pain!

I guess I should have phrased that differently.

There's no hard evidence that either of them was a decent fighter.

[Siu Lum Fighter]

Originally posted by LaterthanNever
OK, after this thread I am not commenting anymore. You are the one who feels it necessary to resort to ad homenim attacks on my character by saying "you prob learned your forms from youtube videos" and so I said "come to Seattle and I'll show you"..so your REPLY indicates that you are instead looking for some sort of challenge match!

Why don't you look at your previous posts when you were saying I was a "hatchet man" trying to suck up to Master Wong and tell me who attacked who's character first. And why would I want to go all the way up to Seattle just to confirm that you are some kind of non-classical kung fu expert? Anyone reading that would say, "hmm, sounds like some kind of challenge to me."

Yes. I still maintain that. Your excess "why don't people listen to me" with such an anger in your voice!

O.K., you're the one using multiple exclamation points in all of your posts. Where does it seem like there's anger in my voice? I guess one could say I'm guilty of zealously trying to promote the book (which you can download to your computer along with the Kindle Reader program or read on any computer in the Kindle Cloud: http://www.amazon.com/Showdown-Oakla.../dp/B00AR0KE1I), but where have I seemed really angry?

And EVERYWHERE? I don't see it on billboards in downtown Seattle by the Space Needle, on TV during the Superbowl commercial and in every article and advertisement in magazines. Other than a mention here and there in a website about Bruce or JKD, I don't see it all that much. There are literally hundreds of martial arts website out there of different schools, martial arts associations, philosophies,etc. If I said that of that #, if it got 3% of the total mention of the content of the collective large # of those websites,movies, books,etc. that would be very generous indeed.

Jesse never mentioned it on his own volition and free will(did comment on it very briefly once when asked) and neither did Taky Kimura when I met him. And neither did Leroy Garcia when I met him either. For that matter, Linda didn't bring it up when I met her and bla, bla, bla...

In case you didn't notice this thread is SPECIFICALLY about the Bruce Lee / Wong Jack Man fight. Just because this subject isn't mentioned everywhere, on posters and billboards, on TV etc., doesn't mean that it's not mentioned in books, magazines, and websites that are relevant to this particular subject. That's like saying, "Why do people care about whether Shaolin Do is for real at all? Nobody mentions it on cable!"

Just because none of the JKD people mentioned it to you doesn't mean it's not relevant to some people. It's relevant to certain students of Wong Jack Man's because we care about how he is portrayed in the media. He's been regarded negatively by a great many people. He's mentioned in a negative light in Teri Tom's books, in Linda Lee's biography, in countless articles featuring guys like Richard Bustillo and Leo Fong, on the Bruce Lee Foundation's website, etc., etc., etc. The whole conflict between them was featured and expanded on in the movie, "Dragon, The Bruce Lee Story," a 14 million dollar movie put out by Universal Pictures (I guess that's not big enough for you.). God, I feel like I'm talking to a wall! Once again, if you're not interested in this particular subject, then just don't comment on it.

Double bind and contradictory statement. You can't have it both ways. By saying "I already did"(went back to practicing) you are implying it doesn't take as high a priority.

OOOh Kaay. Dude, there's a time for practicing and a time for typing posts on the KF Magazine forum. Pick one.

It's done! The fight took place IN 1964!!! I was MINUS three years old then!!

Whoa, calm down there sparky! Who's the one who sounds angry and frustrated again?

[Lucas]

man bawang and i couldnt even derail this sheet for a second!

[GeneChing]

Maybe in 47 years, we'll be debating whether you or bawang won the fight.