Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

[boxerbilly]

Looks like it will be a great fantasy movie. I'll likely watch it 2-3 times too. But pretty sure for other reasons Ill be completely disappointed.

And again, we will never know for certain what happened. Look at all the evidence and testimony. One glaring fact is Lee altered the direction of his art. I don't know enough about Wong to comment accurately on his direction. Back and forth it goes. At this point and really what I've concluded years ago. It was a draw. Bruce not wanting to not admit he did not win but his actions after makes me believe he felt he did not win. Not the same as he lost.

Both men were still kids for the most part.

[boxerbilly]

Possibly another instructor of Bruce Lee Seattle Years-

A Chin Na / Aiki Jujitsu man. Sid Wood****

[boxerbilly]

I stumbled on this. Completely forgot all about it. I made this post back in 2009. Ive learned much more since then.

https://filipinofightingsecretslive....-jeet-kune-do/

[MysticNinjaJay]

The trailer for the movie looks great. I don't expect the movie to be historically accurate but I am interested in a movie about this fight. I wish Wong Jack Man would give a video interview about the fight.

[Jimbo]

I never, ever expected any movie about Bruce Lee's life to attempt to recreate any incidences as accurately as possible. It will never happen. The image of BL the man is too tied up with the image of BL the cinematic fighter/superhero. No filmmaker will go for any degree of accuracy, because the truth is always much more mundane than fantasy, especially regarding BL.

The funny thing is, the way Wong Jack Man is being presented here, and the way I've seen him (or implied representations of him) in other movies, is even further from reality than the way BL himself has been represented. In Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, the long-haired Hung Gar fighter (played by former HK kung fu star John Cheung) was not named WJM, who is mentioned once as another teacher, but is clearly meant to represent him. In Bruce Lee: The Man, the Myth, WJM is represented by an old street hood/bully. And now, WJM is a Shaolin monk(?). I don't know how many Shaolin monks were tromping around San Francisco in 1964; my guess is zero. The really bizarre thing is, these are wildly inaccurate representations of a man who is still very much alive today!!

The movie itself looks like it's definitely worth a watch. I like Philip Ng, and am glad he's gotten this opportunity. What puzzles me from the trailer is the need for the white character. This isn't a racist observation but a sincere one. Apparently, the Hollywood producers and writers did not think that a movie featuring an Asian protagonist and antagonist would hack it without it all revolving around a white leading(?) character who seems to drive the story, and also appears to be the only one who gets the (predictably Asian) girl. At least that's the impression I get from the trailer.

[boxerbilly]

That was a main issue I had as well. How they are portraying WJK.

As to the white guy being the narrator character ? I don't know. Having not seen the movie I can only guess the character may be based loosely around Al Novak ? But Billy Magnussen looks like Barney Scollan.

[boxerbilly]

Also, in the old post I made. I was likely incorrect about Elms being of English decent. But maybe he did have Brit blood ?

[mickey]

Greetings,

Saw the trailer.

What I liked: WJM appears to be the protagonist.

What I disliked: The ridiculous Shaolin robe.

So is this movie really more about WJM's spiritual perspectives and how it drove BL to another level?


mickey

[mickey]

Greetings,

Gary Elms might be the anglicized version of the person's Chinese name, which could have gone so mary different ways, and this is completely speculative: Gary Ng, Charlie Ng, Gary Wu, Charlie Woo or, at worst, Charles Woods.


mickey

[MysticNinjaJay]

I never, ever expected any movie about Bruce Lee's life to attempt to recreate any incidences as accurately as possible. It will never happen. The image of BL the man is too tied up with the image of BL the cinematic fighter/superhero. No filmmaker will go for any degree of accuracy, because the truth is always much more mundane than fantasy, especially regarding BL.

The funny thing is, the way Wong Jack Man is being presented here, and the way I've seen him (or implied representations of him) in other movies, is even further from reality than the way BL himself has been represented. In Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story, the long-haired Hung Gar fighter (played by former HK kung fu star John Cheung) was not named WJM, who is mentioned once as another teacher, but is clearly meant to represent him. In Bruce Lee: The Man, the Myth, WJM is represented by an old street hood/bully. And now, WJM is a Shaolin monk(?). I don't know how many Shaolin monks were tromping around San Francisco in 1964; my guess is zero. The really bizarre thing is, these are wildly inaccurate representations of a man who is still very much alive today!!

The movie itself looks like it's definitely worth a watch. I like Philip Ng, and am glad he's gotten this opportunity. What puzzles me from the trailer is the need for the white character. This isn't a racist observation but a sincere one. Apparently, the Hollywood producers and writers did not think that a movie featuring an Asian protagonist and antagonist would hack it without it all revolving around a white leading(?) character who seems to drive the story, and also appears to be the only one who gets the (predictably Asian) girl. At least that's the impression I get from the trailer.

Considering the fact that Wong Jack Man is still alive it wouldn't be hard to contact him and ask him about his life so he could be portrayed faithfully. Clearly the producers of the film want a sensational and highly fictionalized portrayal of these people in order to make a movie that will appeal to Martial Arts fans and aren't interested in historical accuracy. The White character in the film from what I have read in some way is involved in setting up the fight between Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man. The feeling I got from the trailer is that this was the Kung Fu fight of the century between the old and new ways of Martial Arts. Bruce Lee and Wong Jack Man have different personalities and different philosophies on Martial Arts. By the way I don't think that Wong Jack Man is portrayed as the protagonist. From the trailer it seems more like Bruce Lee has a flare of arrogance to him and Wong Jack Man wants to put him in his place but they are rivals with clear differences and probably neither is an antagonist.

These issues are of special interest to me:

1. Will the circumstances surrounding the fight in the movie have any relation to real world accounts of what the fight was about (e.g. the right to teach Caucasians and other non-Chinese Martial Arts or the challenge at the Sun Sing Theater)?

2. Will Linda Lee be portrayed in the movie?

3. Will there be a clear winner and loser to the fight?

4. Will they show Bruce Lee developing Jeet Kune Do?

I liked Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. This fight was one of the most interesting parts of that movie so it is cool at they will make a movie about the fight itself even if they are going to add a lot of fictional stuff to it.

Greetings,

Gary Elms might be the anglicized version of the person's Chinese name, which could have gone so mary different ways, and this is completely speculative: Gary Ng, Charlie Ng, Gary Wu, Charlie Woo or, at worst, Charles Woods.


mickey

As far as I know Gary Elms was a White English boy who according to Rolf Clausnitzer attended King George V School in Kowloon, Hong Kong. I made a thread about it on this board and on Sherdog someone contacted me claiming they knew Gary Elms personally who is allegedly still alive and promised to send me old and new photos of him to help verify his existence which is questioned by many Bruce Lee haters. Unfortunately that was months ago and he never delivered.

[mickey]

As far as I know Gary Elms was a White English boy who according to Rolf Clausnitzer attended King George V School in Kowloon, Hong Kong. I made a thread about it on this board and on Sherdog someone contacted me claiming they knew Gary Elms personally who is allegedly still alive and promised to send me old and new photos of him to help verify his existence which is questioned by many Bruce Lee haters. Unfortunately that was months ago and he never delivered.

Greetings,

Thank you for the correction. Then, I guess those photos of the fight are fake.

mickey

[Jimbo]

mickey,

Those fight photos aren't necessarily fake, but they aren't of the Bruce Lee/Gary Elms fight. In fact, I don't think they even show BL.

[boxerbilly]

Pretty sure at least the small first foto is of Lee.

This is the conundrum. Tracking down who was actually Gary Elms. Bruce Lee was in contact with so many different people in and out of the arts. Everyone has a different story. Similar but not same. I saw Bruce do this. I taught Bruce that. Bruce taught me. I got duink with Bruce. Bruce and I used to always get high together. Bruce Used steroids. Yip Man was Bruce's only teacher. Yip Man never really taught Bruce Lee. Yip Man killed Bruce Lee, LOL. Okay that's from me.
Jesse Glover said this. Danny Inosanto said that. On and on.

I don't think WJM will make any comments about the film and I believe he does not entertain any questions regarding the fight.

[MysticNinjaJay]

mickey,

Those fight photos aren't necessarily fake, but they aren't of the Bruce Lee/Gary Elms fight. In fact, I don't think they even show BL.

One of those old photos looks kind of like Bruce Lee but I can't tell. This is the one I am talking about.



I tried to verify the existence of Gary Elms but no one has any evidence.

Pretty sure at least the small first foto is of Lee.

This is the conundrum. Tracking down who was actually Gary Elms. Bruce Lee was in contact with so many different people in and out of the arts. Everyone has a different story. Similar but not same. I saw Bruce do this. I taught Bruce that. Bruce taught me. I got duink with Bruce. Bruce and I used to always get high together. Bruce Used steroids. Yip Man was Bruce's only teacher. Yip Man never really taught Bruce Lee. Yip Man killed Bruce Lee, LOL. Okay that's from me.
Jesse Glover said this. Danny Inosanto said that. On and on.

I don't think WJM will make any comments about the film and I believe he does not entertain any questions regarding the fight.

Showdown in Oakland was an interesting book. Based on the description of Wong Jack Man's personality by Rick Wing I get the impression that he is introverted and does not like speaking publicly. Wing says he did not like the Johnny Sun character that was based on him in Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story. I wonder if he will like being portrayed as a Shaolin Monk. Based on the trailer he seems to be wise, humble and confident so maybe this presentation will be more to his liking. But based on what Rick Wing wrote about him in his book I have doubts Wong Jack Man will watch the movie at all. He seems genuinely disinterested in the controversy surrounding his fight with Bruce Lee and the public interest in it.

[Jimbo]

Yes, I should have clarified that the photos showing the actual boxing match don't look like BL is in them. That first photo showing the guy getting an award or something is most likely BL.

I also think that WJM will never discuss the fight publicly with anyone, including movie people. I'll bet he's sick and tired of the whole affair and probably regrets ever agreeing to take part in it. I wasn't there, but I personally think that WJM was a young newcomer who was probably manipulated into it by locals who wanted BL shut down. Now this little closed-door gong sau match has gone down in legend, and forever branded WJM as the guy who BL beat up (mostly promoted by BL and his followers). When it's clear that BL had a LOT more trouble against him than just hurting his hands on the back of his head from WMJ running away. Nobody's entire paradigm completely changes because of that.

The actual fight most likely looked similar to this, except with the Wing Chun guy (Bruce) having a much harder time of it. I find it odd that these HK rooftop fights were supposedly 'illegal', yet there was a newspaper reporter present to take pictures for an article the next day.