Bruce Lee vs. Wong Jack Man fight

[bawang]

You also make some good points, mickey.

However, much of the American interest in kung fu dying down also had a lot to do with unqualified karate teachers passing themselves off as kung fu teachers. All of a sudden, many karate schools began advertising 'kung fu-karate' on their front windows and signs. And TBH, most people really didn't know the difference anyway, and still don't.

Real TCMA that were openly taught were relatively rare at that time, and certainly weren't available everywhere. Certainly not everywhere that people were advertising their karate as kung fu, or kung fu as being just another style/category of karate. Many TCMA are still hard to find or remain unavailable today in many parts of the U.S.

dont forget hung gar and wing chun claimed to be shaolin. that is giant sacriledge

[bawang]

- If American interest died down it is because they found out that serious traditional training in CMA is difficult.

- In Chinese society there was the concern of criminal elements within kung fu schools; so, those energies were present long before Bruce came bouncing along

- Bruce COMPLETELY BROKE the cinematic stereotype of the quiet, small, asexual, effeminate kung fu master.

In the film Fist of Fury (The Big Boss), Bruce's character visits a brothel before he takes on the villains in the final scene. This scene was cut from most prints.

In the film The Chinese Connection, Bruce's character passionately kisses Nora Miao's character in the graveyard scene. That scene was not always shown. The fight scene where Bruce's character impales Yoshida with the sword was actually a revisit to a Wong Fei Hung movie. In that film Wong Fei Hung injures the Japanese master (played by the same actor who played Yoshida) and offers to provide him with medical assistance. Bruce's character offers medical assistance with a wild swinging punch, figuratively saying, "I ain't no Wong Fei Hung, motherf@cker!" For anyone who followed the Wong Fei Hung flicks, this must have been a total shock to their system. They were seeing something totally different. By the way, that same Wong Fei Hung movie may have inspired Bruce's film, The Game of death.


mickey

his high pitched scream was clearly effeminate. his distant silent passive aggresive attitude portrayed in the movies was clearly feminine. self obsession is also a feminine trait. You dont notice because you bought into the concept of "eastern masculinity", which is a completely false construct.

[mickey]

his high pitched scream was clearly effeminate. his distant silent passive aggresive attitude portrayed in the movies was clearly feminine. self obsession is also a feminine trait. You dont notice because you bought into the concept of "eastern masculinity", which is a completely false construct.

Greetings bawang,

The problem only exists when Asians, Chinese in particular, buy into the Bruce Lee cinematic portrayals as the full expression of their masculinity. As far as non Asians are concerned, they need to take time to engage more with cultures that differ from their own and not wait for the movie companies and other media to define their understandings of people for them. If Bruce Lee, kung fu and Chinese food is all a people understands about Chinese culture, they owe it to themselves to find out more.


mickey

[Jimbo]

Greetings bawang,

The problem only exists when Asians, Chinese in particular, buy into the Bruce Lee cinematic portrayals as the full expression of their masculinity. As far as non Asians are concerned, they need to take time to engage more with cultures that differ from their own and not wait for the movie companies and other media to define their understandings of people for them. If Bruce Lee, kung fu and Chinese food is all a people understands about Chinese culture, they owe it to themselves to find out more.


mickey

mickey,

There is a strange phenomenon going on today, at least in the States, where the general liberal policy is 'understanding' of others and dissolving stereotypes, whether 'others' means black, white, Latino, Middle Eastern/Muslim, LGBT, those who are morbidly obese, mentally challenged, 'vertically challenged', whatever, whatever, whatever...yet, a high percentage of these proponents of opening up and understanding others still buy into the stereotypes of East Asians lock, stock and barrel. Even the positive stereotypes (such as "model minority") are harmful, because they don't allow for the reality of individual differences, as well as social problems that all groups face. Also, so-called 'positive' stereotypes of Asians always promote an image of soulless, asexual industriousness as well as masculine weakness, and can be more insidious than many of the negative stereotypes such as organized crime, vice, etc.

Most non-Asians in general either do not or cannot distinguish between the various East and Southeast Asian groups, and don't care, so the group in question matters little, whether they be Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Filipino, Thai, Hmong, etc., etc.

Let me point out that I follow no political sides, but am merely presenting the truth as I've seen it.

[mickey]

Hi Jimbo,

I agree with what you have shared and a lot of it is media dependent. Media is used to help promote policy. So, it really comes down to personal power: the strength and willingness of a person to engage directly. I remember sharing with one of my sisters that "to become Americanized is to become less," meaning that cultural distinctions and all other things that distinguish a particular group is discouraged. I spoke that a very long time ago. And, as you have shared, it is still happening.

mickey

[boxerbilly]

Well Im F---king WHITE ( and 1/322 Indian according to Bawang) and proud of it ! WHITE! WHITE !WHITE !

Im am also proud of my 1/2 Japanese Sister and 1/2 Mexican son.


Funny thing is is I notice it seems real unpopular to be WHITE in todays world. Well I am WHITE and I don't care because cant change it don't want to change it. I like being WHITE !

So f---ck all you anti white mother-f---ers right in the A--ss !

Im proud to be WHITE !

[mickey]

Well Im F---king WHITE ( and 1/322 Indian according to Bawang) and proud of it ! WHITE! WHITE !WHITE !

Im am also proud of my 1/2 Japanese Sister and 1/2 Mexican son.


Funny thing is is I notice it seems real unpopular to be WHITE in todays world. Well I am WHITE and I don't care because cant change it don't want to change it. I like being WHITE !

So f---ck all you anti white mother-f---ers right in the A--ss !

Im proud to be WHITE !

Greetings Billy,



You are too much!

mickey

[boxerbilly]

Greetings Billy,



You are too much!

mickey

LOL.

Maybe. But since no one ever seems to STAND UP for the WHITE guy anymore I figured maybe I should. I am WHITE after all . LOL.

Pretty sure the WHITE readers of this forum outnumber all the other combined ! Sort of like the demographics of America.

Any way simple number facts . I could care less what anyone is if they are my friend. I only get racist when they are not ! Like anyone else out there.

[Jimbo]

Hi, Billy.

In the U.S., whites are still seen as the ideal standard of masculinity, beauty and heroism. Look at any list of what Americans rate as the '50 hottest', whether male or female, and 95% will be white, with a few blacks included for 'balance'. When people think 'all-American' and 'hero', it's usually a white person initially in people's minds, even the minds of many non-whites.

White people are also seen as individuals. A white wimpy guy isn't seen as representing the entire group. Imagine if white men were generally viewed as emasculated wimps, and you might get a brief picture of what many Asian-American males are viewed as in American popular culture, and thus belief systems.

[boxerbilly]

Hi, Billy.

In the U.S., whites are still seen as the ideal standard of masculinity, beauty and heroism. Look at any list of what Americans rate as the '50 hottest', whether male or female, and 95% will be white, with a few blacks included for 'balance'. When people think 'all-American' and 'hero', it's usually a white person initially in people's minds, even the minds of many non-whites.

White people are also seen as individuals. A white wimpy guy isn't seen as representing the entire group. Imagine if white men were generally viewed as emasculated wimps, and you might get a brief picture of what many Asian-American males are viewed as in American popular culture, and thus belief systems.

Jimbo Im really just having some fun. Im on narcotics at present, lol. But it is true. The white guy be getting kicked a lot and Im tired of it !

Anyway, I understand other people of non white origin getting upset over this that and everything else but again. Whites are like 80 percent of the market. Almost EVERY market in the US. So it sort of make good business sense to market to the largest demographic. I hate to break to everyone. America is a WHITE country. That's the reality.

I personally am sick and tired of hearing how we white do all this bad stuff. Heck everyone race did bad stuff to another at one point in time or another. Get over it! Or we cant move on ever. But stuff like white advantage. Heck, I lost a job to a black guy because of affirmitive action. And I know I was the better person at that trade because I trained that EXACT black guy. Was I mad ? Nope. That's life dudes ! Glad he got hired because he deserved a great job too and he was very good at that trade because I trained him !

Anyway, its all nonsense to divide us.

It would be like me going to China and complaining about the Chinese problem there. Keeping po'whitey down !

[bawang]

It would be like me going to China and complaining about the Chinese problem there. Keeping po'whitey down !

thats exactly what white expats do.

Well Im F---king WHITE ( and 1/322 Indian according to Bawang) and proud of it ! WHITE! WHITE !WHITE !

Im am also proud of my 1/2 Japanese Sister and 1/2 Mexican son.


Funny thing is is I notice it seems real unpopular to be WHITE in todays world. Well I am WHITE and I don't care because cant change it don't want to change it. I like being WHITE !

So f---ck all you anti white mother-f---ers right in the A--ss !

Im proud to be WHITE !

you are free to gloat about being white but kung fu is a subculture of oppressed people. no one wants to be the bad guy in the movie but thats what you are. eastern cultures are communal, one is all all is one. the father eats sour grapes and sons teeth is set on edge.

this is why huge numbers of chinese teachers active in the 70 to 90s now train with small groups of chinese only. some even train alone.

[boxerbilly]

thats exactly what white expats do.



you are free to gloat about being white but kung fu is a subculture of oppressed people. no one wants to be the bad guy in the movie but thats what you are. eastern cultures are communal, one is all all is one. the father eats sour grapes and sons teeth is set on edge.

this is why huge numbers of chinese teachers active in the 70 to 90s now train with small groups of chinese only. some even train alone.

Yeah looks like there is no escape a hole in any race.

Anyway, you are all okay by me. Beside I like woman of all races, lol. " Bond. James Bond ! "

Funny thing is is Bruce Lee was probably the most powerful image I recall as a young boy. I wanted to be the guy on the ETD commercial only aired after midnight EST. He looked pretty masculine to me then. Every muscle standing out. Fast and moving like no else since. But that's my belief other think different.

[-N-]

this is why huge numbers of chinese teachers active in the 70 to 90s now train with small groups of chinese only. some even train alone.

We train chinese, whites, and everybody else. We just yell more at the chinese ones.

[SevenStar]

- If American interest died down it is because they found out that serious traditional training in CMA is difficult.

Gotta disagree there. Tedious and boring, yes, but more difficult, no. I've not yet done anything in CMA that was more difficult than fight training, which is something many Americans do. The biggest killer among Americans is that MMA is now the big thing and in 20 years there have been very few CMA competitors, much less winners. Consequently, it's seen as ineffective. if shuai chiao and san da were bigger in the US, you would see more people migrate towards kung fu. Also, you have a lot of fakes out there.

Sho'nuff said it best: "it's skinny little lizards like you running around thinking they're the last dragon that gives kung fu a bad name..."

[SevenStar]

A white wimpy guy isn't seen as representing the entire group. Imagine if white men were generally viewed as emasculated wimps, and you might get a brief picture of what many Asian-American males are viewed as in American popular culture, and thus belief systems.

it depends who you ask. to the black community, all white guys are wimps. When I was growing up, I would've gotten jumped if I ever lost a fight to a weak, suburban white guy.