Ma Bu (Horse Stance) Training

[Eggman]

Hello everyone. First post.

How many minutes of Ma Bu training do you do a day? per week?
How much is too much in your opinion?
Are you trying to achieve "upper legs parallel to floor" when stance training?
How much is basic stance work emphasized in your school?


I am working on improving this stance (along with all the others), and would like your opinion and thoughts.

Thanks,
Eggman.

[Liokault]

Zero.... but maybe as much as 1/2 hour whilst doing other things

After about 5-6 mins your not geting any benafit......just training to stand in a stance.


No

Not much....and that is to much.

I am working on improving this stance (along with all the others), and would like your opinion and thoughts.

Why? Training in horse stance will just get you a good horse stance. Go find some one who will try to hit you in the head....train in stoping them from hitting you....use any stance that helps you do this.

[PangQuan]

I practice mainly Shaolin, for our school yes upperlegs parallel to floor. You should be able to place a staff across your thighs and not have it roll off.

This is very hard ma bu to hold starting out. but remember to keep your back straight and your but tucked in as though you were going to sit on a small stool.

Sifu says not to go longer than 45 minutes at a time.

Stance is very emphasized at school, very traditional is how Sifu likes it. Low and strong.

If you just started to train your stances, start with ma bu for a few minutes and gradually work your way up to longer times. Strong horse will make all other stances much better.

This is the reason for so low of a ma bu in some chinese martial arts, it is helpful to get all other stances in to correct positions.

[PangQuan]

try to throw someone who has developed a strong horse.

it has proven itself effective to me in terms that I have used my horse to gain the upperhand more than once.

[Liokault]

Thats why a strong horse stance is THE method used in MMA to avoid being thrown then? And why top MMA guys (I hear Liddel) spend hours in front of a mirror trying to get a low horse stance?

[Liokault]

Any way, hows that work?

A low horse stance is just having a low centre of gravity right? So how would holding it for 45 mins help you avoid being thrown....wouldnt it help a person who took the stance right before being thrown, in the same way?

Or does the 44 min 59 seconds extra glue your feet to the ground somehow?

[Losttrak]

Kung fu requires strong legs and a supple waist. Without stance training, you will be missing one of those elements. Strong stance skills means your legs have greater density and therefore, armor. Also, when you train deep stances, it creates a better kick. If you train only with weights, you dont have that "sticking" power as you would if you did stance work. I noticed that when I kicked before stancework, I would hit hard but bounce off. After doing stancework, my legs were soo used to resistance that they drove through. Somehow it helps with target penetration, but I am unsure of the physiological aspects of it.

My (horse stance) ma bu is 45 degrees off my center line with my feet on the railroad tracks (parallel). 45 degree bend is nice, as it works more of the leg than a low stance, in my opinion. The lower you get, it feels like I am using more arse muscle than leg.

The most I train is two minute intervals, regardless of how long I can max out at... Its like lifting weights. Its not about doing the max, as it is about repitition. Plus, the more you do horse stances in great repition, the better it feels when you get up. There are times, that your legs literally orgasm in pleasure when you get up. For some of you guys, it might be the only chance you have...

[Liokault]

Kung fu requires strong legs and a supple waist. Without stance training, you will be missing one of those elements. Strong stance skills means your legs have greater density and therefore, armor. Also, when you train deep stances, it creates a better kick. If you train only with weights, you dont have that "sticking" power as you would if you did stance work. I noticed that when I kicked before stancework, I would hit hard but bounce off. After doing stancework, my legs were soo used to resistance that they drove through. Somehow it helps with target penetration, but I am unsure of the physiological aspects of it.

I think your wrong, but there are so many threads here about this so I wont bother to go into why

[Losttrak]

I think your wrong, but there are so many threads here about this so I wont bother to go into why

You are entitled to your opinion.

[joedoe]

I don't often train in a deep horse stance. When I train I use a higher horse stance a lot, and to me that is more important since it doesn't just train the stance it trains the stance while punching/blocking etc. This way you learn how to use your stance to provide the solid foundation for your technique.

[sk8fool]

I am still a beginer in shaolin and have only been learning for a year now. For me, when trying to do ma bu, I'd have trouble getting my toes to point straight. They would point outwards from me. This technique works for me, maybe it can help for somebody else as well.
I stand with my legs abot shoulder's width apart, and toes pointing outwards/diagonal
with weight on my toes and swing my heels out so that my feet are now facing foward
now my knees are bowed in so I pivot them out so they will be over my feet while lowering myself and am able to get a pretty decent ma bu.

[word of honor]

hey Eggman, i train in choy li fut and yes, imo upper legs parallel to ground is best. sometimes people will drop below parallel when they start to tire and that is not so good, it is a much weaker position, a collapsed position basically. or they lean their upper body forward, also not good, a tight position, and it takes much more energy to hold.

the other thing we do is make the stance as square as possible. so ideally knees should be in a straight line over the ankles, feel pointing forward. this really works the flexibility of the hips as well as protects the knees from injury (which can happen if you let your knees buckle inward)

as far as low stances and what's the application point of it, i see it in terms of working full range of motion. i may never go to parallel in a practical setting or during sparring but never say never.

imo it is worse to hold a long stance if it degenerates into junk. i hold my sei ping ma/ma bu as long as i can in the proper position until i'm shaking so much i can't hold it any more or the timer goes off.

we do alot of stance training at our kwoon. stances are the foundation of everything so the stronger and more stable the better. also we have stance training forms we practice frequently and repeatedly (oh the burn)

i find holding sei ping ma is as much about exercising the will as it is about making the legs stronger and more enduring. because once you start to shake it really becomes mind over matter. but if i prepare myself in the right frame of mind to stay relaxed in body and breadth, it's amazing how much longer it takes before the shaking begins

[omarthefish]

try to throw someone who has developed a strong horse.

it has proven itself effective to me in terms that I have used my horse to gain the upperhand more than once.

"Throwing" may be made more difficult but sweeping becomes a piece of cake.

ie. Dropping your weight only helps protect you against throws involving "picking you up" (quotes for a reason) Anything involving reaping or hooking a leg will be made much easier by the realative lack of mobility.

[joedoe]

So dropping your centre of gravity is not going to help against a sweep or reaping throw?

[Liokault]

So dropping your centre of gravity is not going to help against a sweep or reaping throw?

It will help, but not for 45 minuets