differences in bak sil lum forms from different schools

[shuaichiao]

Here is the lineage he gave in his material

...................Shaolin Temple

....................Gu Yee Cheung

....................Yim Seung Mo

Chan Kwok Wai....................Kwong Wing Lam

WooTchi Nyu

[NorthernShaolin]

Well he could at least be a little more detail in the lineage.

More like Shaolin Temple.......? (unknown).......Gu Yee Cheung...etc.

[kai men]

Hi everybody!! sorry I have been out of the forum so long time.
I would like to clarify some things regarding Sifu Jerry Lee, Chan Kowk Wai, etc.
1) Sifu Jerry Lee did learn SOME Bak Siu Lam from an advanced student of Chan Kowk Wai in Miami in the 70's.
2) My brother learnt Bak Siu Lam with Sifu Jerry Lee (only a little, Shaolin 6, Shaolin 7 etc.) and then he continued learning from me, until this year when he became a disciple from Lai Hay Liang from gwangzhow.
3) Jerry Lee modified the BSL forms. That's why mr. Ferrisi could see those differences, but the origin of BSL from Jerry is the same: Chan Kowk Wai.
4) Frank De Maria doens't teach Northern Shaolin, but Luohan and other Shaolin Styles.
5) Wu Tchu Niu was indeed an old student of Chan Kowk Wai. He learnt a lot of things with GM CHan. When my Sifu Chan Kowk Wai, discovered the video tapes, he got angry!!! these were made and sold without any authorization. It is indeed a very poor material, there is a lot of wrong stuff there and the performance is one of the worst things I ve ever seen. Nothing to do with Chan Kowk Wai's gong fu, even when they are his forms.
6) Mr Ferrisi is not - nor was - Chan Kowk Wai student. He only went to his Academy to have a few classes with him, not establishing any relationship nor continuity.

Today in Argentina we have three different lineages from BSL:
1) Ku Yu Cheung - Yim Sheung Mo - Chan Kowk Wai - Horacio Di Renzo
2) Lung Tchi Cheung - Lung Kai Min - Olive Hui - Neldo Sacomani
4) Ku Yu Cheung - Lai Gan Qing - Lai Hai Liang (son) - Claudio Di Renzo

About the differences....I agree with Gene completely. Different flavour, sometimes indicates that your teacher is a real Master. No Master leaves this world without adding his personal touch to the art he teachs.
Kindest Regards
Horacio

[Hui Clan]

Kai Men,

It's been a while since last we spoke to each other. I hope all is well with you and your family on that side of the globe. Anyway I have a few questions and/or comments listed below regarding this topic. See below:

[QUOTE=kai men]Hi everybody!! sorry I have been out of the forum so long time.
I would like to clarify some things regarding Sifu Jerry Lee, Chan Kowk Wai, etc.

1) Sifu Jerry Lee did learn SOME Bak Siu Lam from an advanced student of Chan Kowk Wai in Miami in the 70's.

Was this student Sifu Chan Bing Cheung? if so are you'll still in contact him him currently?

7 etc.) and then he continued learning from me, until this year when he became a disciple from Lai Hay Liang from gwangzhow.

This is great news. Tell your brother I said hello and drop me an email sometimes.
My son and I were in China around the same time as you brother was. We tried to hook up with him while we were there, but we missed each other. We'll try to hook up (visit you'll) later in the year down in your area.

5) Wu Tchu Niu was indeed an old student of Chan Kowk Wai. He learnt a lot of things with GM CHan. When my Sifu Chan Kowk Wai, discovered the video tapes, he got angry!!! these were made and sold without any authorization. It is indeed a very poor material, there is a lot of wrong stuff there and the performance is one of the worst things I ve ever seen. Nothing to do with Chan Kowk Wai's gong fu, even when they are his forms.

I believe Woo Tchi Niu (Wu Chi Nu) and his son Woo Pak San resided in the Whittier, California area about 10 years ago. Since then their where abouts are unknown. Also
I have four of the ten tapes that were produced by Mr. Woo and Sifu Lam. They are , Lien Lou (Number 2), Jou Ma (Number 3), Lin Wan (Number 9), and Sik Fot (Number 10) forms. The tapes are still in very good shape, considering how old they are.


Today in Argentina we have three different lineages from BSL:
1) Ku Yu Cheung - Yim Sheung Mo - Chan Kowk Wai - Horacio Di Renzo
2) Lung Tchi Cheung - Lung Kai Min - Olive Hui - Neldo Sacomani
4) Ku Yu Cheung - Lai Gan Qing - Lai Hai Liang (son) - Claudio Di Renzo

The above are three great lineages all tracing it's roots back to GM Ku awsome.
Question: where does Sifu Olive Hui resides? in HK, South America, where?

About the differences....I agree with Gene completely. Different flavour, sometimes indicates that your teacher is a real Master. No Master leaves this world without adding his personal touch to the art he teachs.

I'm totally aboard with the above here! and in agreement with both you and Gene.

Thanks for clarifying things up in your post.

Hui Clan

[Malcolm J.]

Hi Horacio,

This is Malcolm from Argentina but living in Hong Kong.

Would like to know if you find any differences between what you learned from Master Chan and what Claudio is learning from Sifu Lai?


Hi Hui Clan,

Sifu Olive Hui lives in Hong Kong.

Regards to all.
Malcolm Johnstone

[Lokhopkuen]

Olive Hui was the lady connected us with Lung Kai Ming in 2001, Hui Clan.

[Hui Clan]

Brother Lokhopkeun thanks for the update, that's good to know. Does anyone have images of what Sifu Olive Hui looks like?

Hui Clan

Olive Hui was the lady connected us with Lung Kai Ming in 2001, Hui Clan.

[pablitop]

hey! here u can find some pics of Sifu Olive Hui

www.wuhsingchuan.com.ar

[kai men]

Hi Malcom!
Mestre Lai's Bak Siu Lam is very similar to GM Chan Kowk Wai`s. It is just a little more "dinamic", relaxed, but the secuences are exactly the same.
I could also check the Siu Can Tson excercises and there are only minor differences.
I find this teacher very good.
Regards!!
Horacio

[Lokhopkuen]

Brother Kai Men;
we also found Lung Sifu's gung fu to be very similar to what we practice with delightful subtle differences. The Kowloon Norhern Shaolin association welcomed us as brothers and sister of the Wulin from a warm space of Wudi.

Peace

[kai men]

Hi brother, I agree completely. Brotherhood between all the Bak Siu Lam family is escential to our art.
Kindest regards to everybody!
horacio

[GeneChing]

As lineages go, I feel pretty luck that BSL is relatively friendly with each other. We have our issues, but on the whole, we don't see the full out wars that go down in many of the other lineages. Why do you all think that is?

[David Jamieson]

As lineages go, I feel pretty luck that BSL is relatively friendly with each other. We have our issues, but on the whole, we don't see the full out wars that go down in many of the other lineages. Why do you all think that is?

I think it's probably because the forms are more or less the same. And the founder is recognized and not so far in the past as to be a shadowy legend that cannot be proved or disproved. it's still quite obvious who Ku Yu Cheung was, what he did, who he taught and how he died.

As opposed to a stream of legendary stories etc etc that you find in other styles.

[gwa sow]

can you point out a site that has some good history on him or bak sil lum?

[David Jamieson]

I think WJM's students / teachers have some info at http://www.jingmo.org

and then I also think there might be some info at http://www.jingmo.com

you can also do a googlde on Ku Yu Cheong / Ku Yu Cheung / Gu Ru Zhang / Ku Yu chang and probably find some stuff about him.

there aren't a whole lot of masters of this style and the ones who are share a lot in their lines both of study and of their teachers.