Wall Bag

[EmptyCup]

yeah but how do you know they'll still be fine a few years from now?

My dad used to train hard and now that he's older, his training in his younger days has come back to haunt him.

Old rotator cuff injuries, upper and lower back injuries, hand injuries, neck injuries, arthiritis, a host of things

not all might be directly linked to his martial arts stuff but I think it's safe to say most of it is.

And he never even punched a wall :)

[OdderMensch]

im assumeing from your otherr posts that you are not useing the wall to 'condition" your hands, is this correct?

When i use the bag i get into a YCKMY at proper distance to strike the bag with a bent elbow then i whip my fist into the center of the bag. I do this with a relaxed fist, concentrating on differnt things(ie stance, elbow position, relaxed power) i do this to train my structure to accept force/impact, to not tense or loose my stance, and to a lesser degree to get my hands used to the impact force a proper pnch can deliver.

We have had a few that just punch at the bag with all their might as fast as they can, they usually scrape/bruise the hand and get blood on the sand bag. Sifu always says not to bleed on his stuff, but some people never listen i guess :) .

And when you say "full force is an illusion" what do you mean?

[whippinghand]

1.Your dad probably wasn't doing whatever he was doing properly. 2. He probably didn't listen to his body.

[whippinghand]

I have responded to you by e-mail.

[EmptyCup]

In those days his body was in super condition. He never did have any problems. However, about 15-17 years later, the problems surface. His body gave no indication before that it had problems.

With things like these its hard to tell short-term. It's the long term effects that come back to haunt you. This is precisely why I don't want to train by punching a brick wall. YOU might think you're fine now but who knows 10-15 years down the road?

My dad had a friend before who did what you did except he would deliberately break his knuckles over and over again by punching brick walls. That wa, each time the bone re-knitted, his knuckles would be stronger from the layers of bone built upon each other. This guy once fought 11 guys at once!!! He wouldn't block, but attack the opponent's attacking limb. So if somebody went to punch him, he would punch the guy's arm and it would basically be useless since his fists were so strong. Yet I wonder if he can even hold a pen properly nowadays or even his chopsticks when eating...

[cobra]

The Wall Bag, while not as physically heavy as the hanging bag. Yet, with the wall behind it, it is as if it were much heavier than the hanging bag. So technically, I would say that the wall bag is much heavier.

Just my 4 cents!!

[Gazza]

Hi could you please help me to understand your comments as you have for Oddermensch I would be greatfull. doghouse@ihug.co.nz

thankyou.
Gary. :cool:

[EmptyCup]

Are you saying that the wall bag is "heavier" than the hanging bag because it has resistance behind it while the hanging bag does not?

I know my hanging bag weighs about 100 pounds and is stuffed until it is as solid as a wall and rock hard. It is made of pure canvas and hangs from the ceiling. Therefore not only is is large and heavy, but it swings when you hit it and rotates if you don't strike it properly in the center and your blows glance off.

This is more like a real opponent than the wall bag which is much softer and easier on the hands, not to mention (the wall bag) providing less weight and therefore less resistance.

The hanging bag provides more resistance than the wall bag. it It is harder to hit and harder on the hands. The impact is totally different.

Your comments?

[cobra]

The wall bags we use are canvas, I don't know what they are filled with, but they are not easy on the hands. If you punch "through" the bag you get a lot more resistance which helps to build those muscles up. If you do the same on the heavy bag, it will swing before you reach the same level of resistance. Plus it helps you build up the strength in your YCKYM stance at the same time. Don't get me wrong, I like the heavy bag too, but I feel I get more strength benefit out of the wall bag.

Just my 4 cents!!

[EmptyCup]

Yeah, if you punch it hard enough it will swing but when it swings back towards you and you punch it again, there is added resistance and momentem moving towards your hand as you punch.

I feel this offers more to me than the wall bag. The more I "punch" through the hanging bag, the harder it comes back at me in the return swing and to avoid it rotating, I must pay attention to punch properly and at the "center" instead of having improper punches glancing off and causing the bag to rotate. This way, not only do I get resistance from the bag swinging at me, but each and evey punch that I do has to be perfect.

[whippinghand]

So basically you're saying that the wallbag could do some damage as well, but you won't know until 15 years from now... like screw up your tendons because you're alignment was off. But you didn't know because the wall bag let you think that you were punching EFFECTIVELY, just because you were punching HARD (full-force), and your ego was then satisfied.

Full-force is an illusion.

[EmptyCup]

I don't see how you can tell if your alignment is right on a wall and not tell when on a bag.

If you can tell on a wall then you can tell on a bag.

And yes, regardless of alignment, punching anything can affect you negatively in the future, but I think in the case of sandbag training for ability to defend yourself, it is worth it, but I don't see wall punching as a worthy trade-off for anything because I'm sure it will affect me in a far worse way.

[whippinghand]

Of course you don't see it. You have not emptied your cup.

[EmptyCup]

Just because I disagree with you doesn't mean I am wrong. The way you sound, you have already assumed you are right and that anyone who disagrees with you does not have an open mind.

I think maybe it is you who should re-evaluate your "knowledge"

[whippinghand]

Always have, and always will. What's your excuse?
Do you train at that school on Wood St.?