In general, Wushu is a big gear with a big crank. Take that same crank, but put it on a small gear. That's Kung Fu.
Clear enough?
Registered Bruiser
In general, Wushu is a big gear with a big crank. Take that same crank, but put it on a small gear. That's Kung Fu.
Clear enough?
Many roads. One path.
Many styles. One art.
Many lineages. One practioner.
prime rib rocks hard!
i dont know what the hell you people have been watching. most of the "modern" wushu i see takes a level of athletisism (sp?) skill, and flexibility, over "traditional" kung fu, and good "modern" wushu has that explosiveness that "traditional" has. many of the moves are from "traditional" kung fu. and i see them training a lot harder then traditional kung fu most of the time too. plus there isnt as much bikkerying it seems in the world of "modern" wushu comapred to "traditional" wushu.
this is a wack ass subject. you train kung fu cause you like it. practice wu-de and just train and stop argueing over which is better.
Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis
Unregistered User
One is penut butter, the other is jam, and the world is the bread. They go better if used at the same time, but can be used by themselves if your picky.
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
You know you want to click me!!
prime rib rocks hard!
which is peanut butter and which is jam? there are many flavors of jam liek there are many styles of traditional kung fu. very good comparison
Unregistered User
I havent figured that one out yet. I may be too busy eating my PB&J to answer that.
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
You know you want to click me!!
Itinerant practitioner
*pulls up lawn chair and popcorn to watch the next phase of the silly argument*
lueb, people who have been fed the kungfu vs wushu story won't be able to handle the idea very readily that in the end, it's all good.
Contemporary wushu practitioners for the most part are far more advanced than traditional kungfu practitioners on average.
Many reputable and well known sifu of traditional styles also teach contemporary wushu and have no issues with running the two courses together. IN fact, it is a much smoother transition for the contemporary wushu athlete to make the crossover to traditional kungfu than it is for someone who does traditional wushu to map over to contemporary.
One is for performance the other is for application, but many who study traditional (read most) do not have the ability to apply it and what they have is just shape anyway.
In short, it's all good and contemporary wushu quite simply exposes all kungfu to the world moreso than small closed clubs that practice in secret like some story they read.
No insult intended, but there are a hella lotta bull headed stubborn and narrowminded so called traditional kungfu people out there who thinks there poo poo is smelling like roses. But you don't see them performing too often for the benefit of anything beyond self promotion or enhancement of their own school.
For me, this damages the whole shebang. If that sounds harsh, so be it. Hard cheese and all that. I still practice trad and mma and I tip my hat to the contemporary wushu folks, what they do is of high skill as any other ma out there.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Unregistered User
Im with you 100% DJ.
Clouded their judgement, it is. The jam with the penut butter, together well it goes. MMMMM...
A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
~Sima Qian
Master pain, or pain will master you.
~PangQuan
"Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching
You know you want to click me!!
I train UFC.
YKW, I would agree with your post.
I think all of the arts are tough and take some time to learn. A lot of time that is. And Wushu perpetuates that old racist feeling many get that Chinese people can all do Kung Fu or that it looks like flips, spinning kicks, and other fancy stuff. I think it does require a lot of skill, but a skill in one arena and one that is very removed from traditional combat oriented Kung Fu. Some train for the ring in MMA, some train for the judges in either Wushu competition or point sparring, and others still train for the street if anything were to happen. Mainly to protect themselves. I don't think that any spinning jumping flipping kicks would be very good in a wintery place. It's practicality is there but it is not something I would use to defend myself.
Traditional Kung Fu is a very complicated and intricate art and takes a long time to learn, and to understand, but as every day goes by one gets a better understanding of what it is. The basics give you technique and shape but the advanced stuff is where you ingrain and incorporate the art into who you are. I doubt if many reach that point. Many do not have the patience to study something so in depth. Many think they need to try the grass on the other side, but then, they say they want something that is more effective now and lets me fight all the time! How many actually get into fights with their so-called ineffective art? In the Western world, probably not too many. Unless you seek them out by cage battles or attitude, but that is something compeletely different. Therefore, Wushu, not a great system like Kung Fu, or approach like Kung Fu, but it gives people what they are looking for and feel is necessary.
To sum it up, people will seek out what they feel benefits them and although I personally don't like to see Wushu called Kung Fu because it is not a combat art, (Where is the IRon Palm, where is the steel weapons???), I have nothing against those who enjoy it but I feel traditional CMA is much more appropriate for self-defense.
A unique snowflake
prime rib rocks hard!
those "solk pajama's" are mad comfortable and prefer them over the rugged cotton kung fu uniform for competition. heck silk is so smooth against your skin
Registered User
What's wrong with CMA for just sport or art?
Modern Wushu like it or not is one aspect of Chinese Martial Arts taken to one extreme (art & sport). Modern Wushu is not the ‘be all and end all’ of Chinese Martial Arts, but simply one aspect of it and should not be taken to be the sole representation of Chinese Martial Arts as a whole. In fact most practitioners of Modern Wushu are quick to admit both that and what they do is not really for self defense, so where’s the harm in that?
Pointing out things like the weight of weapons, running into jump kicks, excessive acrobatics is pretty much irrelevant really because they (practitioners of Modern Wushu) are practicing not for combat purposes but for sport and art. If so called ‘practicality’ is one’s only argument against Modern Wushu, then one should perhaps look at many of the ‘traditional’ practices; Lion Dancing, Qigong training, classical weaponry, etc… and start canceling them out. Come on Traditional Kung Fu might as well get rid of all of their ‘Steel’ weapons and trade them in for guns, rifles, hunting knives & baseball bats. The time spent practicing with a Nine Ring Combat Steel Broadsword or other such items would probably be better spent on a heavy bag, hitting focus mitts or sparring. And then Lion Dancing well what’s the point in that? Where’s the applicability? If you haven’t clued in, I am playing Devil’s Advocate here. Personally I appreciate Lion Dancing, Traditional Styles & weaponry however to me they are also not the sole definition of the Chinese Martial Arts.
Modern Wushu, as well as other more recent additions to the Chinese Martial Arts spectrum like San Shou, the whole Shaolin subculture thing and so on are pretty much here to stay. I personally think it would be better if some out there would just realize that and just try to embrace the Chinese Martial Arts not as one thing or another but rather the sum of many parts. But then that’s just my opinion.
Itinerant practitioner
Sounds like some guys are comfortable living in a medieval fantasy or something.
lol
Kungfu for health and self defense, wushu for exhillerating performance and for the sportive combative aspect there is the san shou, or whatever the name of the week is, mma, san da, chinese kickboxing etc etc.
How does anyone think weilding a classical weapon like a Kwan Dao or a Darn Dao has any more validity than the athletics displayed in contemporary wushu?
These are aspects of Kungfu that have pretty much zero application in todays world, you will never be able to test whether or not your sword form is defensively or offensively effective unless you go out and become some kind of psycho killer of course.
Iron palm is another thing that you can ask yourself, when are you going to use that? How are you going to be able to tell that your form work is meting out as effective and applicable combat? Especially when the only people you cross hands with are doing the same dance as you all the time?
The hard line traditional kungfu point of view is in my opinion silly. As is the performance wushu is for self defense line of view. Each has it's purpose.
People are making it clear that these things, all of them are for the sheer joy of doing. Some aspects have practical purpose, and large parts of the practice of martial arts in whatever name you wanna call it has little or no purpose other than this. Stay healthy, grow old and be limber still, etc etc.
To look down on other arts isn't part of having kungfu. That I know for sure.
Kung Fu is good for you.
Registered User
Seems to be lots of subjective posts and not much substance, the question is what is the difference not what is better or applicable etc.
so basically look at the textbook type answers and ignore evryone else, hate it when people post in someones thread and dont even read the question properly.
I.E. he doesnt want your opinion he just wants facts.
Wushu=martial art (wether traditional or contemporary)
Kung fu=hard to learn skill (in western circles mistakenly used to mean chinese martial art).
There is no technique that speed cannot defeat......
Itinerant practitioner
lol, I believe your interpretation has been posted several times already.
In general, I agree with your final points as the answer to the original question.
Nevertheless, there is seemingly a lot of folk who carry around their teacher's opinions of things as opposed to forming their own reality from their own critical thought. This is not uncommon in martial arts practitioners I find. lol
Kung Fu is good for you.
Hey I think "Chi" is real
Are you including your self here Dave?
LOL.. really, what else did you hear?.. did you hear that he was voted Man of the Year by Kung-Fu Magizine?
Itinerant practitioner
absotively! I used to carry around my teachers opinions as if they were the ultimate in the correct.
But with time, experience and acquired knowledge, my position and stance on many things changed, remained the same on some and completely reversed on others.
It's all part of being human.
Know yourself, and you will know the world and all that.
Kung Fu is good for you.
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