Who wants to play "spot the kung fu principle in everyday life"?

[lada]

I didn't know where to put this. It is like a big roundtable discussion about something. It is not about a particular kung fu, it applies to all of them. You can move it if it needs to be moved.

I wanna teach ya somethin. If you will let me. I hate telling people stuff though. It is boring. They usually get resentful. If you make a game of it, everyone learns what they do and do not know. We all get to laugh and point at each others mistakes. We realize we are all human and sharing makes us all stronger. We bond.

So you know that if you make fun and point and hit people, you are destroying the spirit of the game right? Ribbing someone is all in fun. Telling them they an idiot is mean.

I start the game. Here is a picture of a bodybuilder.

http://www.happeh.com/Images/Weightlifter.jpg

What does your knowledge of kung fu, body language or any other knowledge you have that applies tell you about this picture? Share with us what you know. Don't be shy.

I got some very specific questions I want to ask and a very specific thing I want to show you. This specific thing would take most people years to figure out/understand/see. I am a blabbermouth so I tell you after a week's worth of discussion. You make me see something from what you know and I will trade you what I see.

Remember. Mean people suck!

[anerlich]

What does your knowledge of kung fu, body language or any other knowledge you have that applies tell you about this picture?

Does your choice of this picture have anything to do with your extensive rants on "Wing Chun making you go gay" on the Wing Chun forum?

Ribbing someone is all in fun. Telling them they an idiot is mean.

Ever heard the expression, "Gotta be cruel to be kind"?

[Merryprankster]

As we know, Kung Fu, and all arts for that matter are special and unique. The principles of movement are completely different from art to art and circumstance to circumstance. As such, there are no Kung Fu principles in everyday life.

[David Jamieson]

As we know, Kung Fu, and all arts for that matter are special and unique. The principles of movement are completely different from art to art and circumstance to circumstance. As such, there are no Kung Fu principles in everyday life.

principles of kungfu can or cannot be applied in everyday depending on the individual.

for instance, posture. One can choose to sit straight and relaxed in their chair at the office allowing for correct alignment of teh spine which in turn is not only comfortable, but better for teh spine overall. This is a simple principle that some choose to adhere to and otehrs don't and as well is a kungfu principle.

or, say someone shovels holes for a living, if they were a kungfu person, they would know something of falling power and how the application of it would make their task more efficient and less tiring. This again would be a kungfu principle applied in everyday life. Straight down, let teh weight drop in, don't deviate from teh straight down path of the natural weight falling. and so on.

not to mention philosophical ideas and principles that one could apply to their relationships with others and so on.

as for the photo, well it's a pose the intention of which is to define specific muscles. The contortion of the body is to suit that purpose. the person depicted doesn't necessarily have anything wrong with them ther than everyday wear and tear or that wear and tear that occurs from bodybuilding.

[Merryprankster]

I was joking

[Ray Pina]

No Merry's right. It's all the same. In fact, there's very little reason to train, because a white belt and a blue belt, it's all the same mechanics .... there's only so much the human body can do. Just buy the book. Follow the pictures and you'll be alright.

[lada]

Does your choice of this picture have anything to do with your extensive rants on "Wing Chun making you go gay" on the Wing Chun forum?



Ever heard the expression, "Gotta be cruel to be kind"?

Yes it does. Why? Have you figured out where I am going already?

We are talking kung fu principles here right?

Yin/Yang theory is like THE most basic kung fu principle isn't it?

IS or IS NOT this man an example of extreme yang? Or "super duper Yang" as I put it in the other thread?

If not why not?

I see a man. Man is Yang. I see lots and lots of big and very hard muscles. Hard is Yang. That means the man is Yang plus Yang = Yang2 or extreme Yang or super duper Yang.

If you know what is coming, go ahead and spit it out. I will be sorta bummed but not really. Once we get an agreement on if he is or is not Yang, then we go the next step. It involves one of the most attention getting things in the photo in my opinion.

[PangQuan]

It involves one of the most attention getting things in the photo in my opinion.

His sh!t eating grin?

[_William_]

http://www.happeh.com/Images/Weightlifter.jpg

It is the same troll that was banned a few weeks ago. Way to be subtle, Happeh.

[bodhitree]

who wants to play spot the corny thread, oh wait i just did.

[lada]

Since we got no takers, you Wing Chun practioners oughta be ashamed of yourselves, here goes.

If you look at the picture of Udo and Uloko, what do you see?

Udo is angry and he is talking smack to Uloko. How is Udo holding his arm? He is holding his arm palm down so that his finger is pointing downwards. Oh Yeah! Holding your hand palm down is just like a Fook Sau isn't it? How remarkable that is. Udo is doing Wing Chun and he does not even know it.

Now we look at Uloko. Of course you know the answer now don't you? Uloko is holding his arms with the palm up. Uloko is doing a Tan Sau from Wing Chun isn't he? The only difference between Wing Chun Chi Sau and these two men is how the arms are held. They are not held in Chi Sau position. That does not matter. Generically, udo is doing a Fuk Sau and Uloko is doing a Tan Sau.

Recall. We are still talking about the Bodybuilder, too much Yang and too little Yin. The other thing that is incredibly basic that I thought everyone would jump on is this.

According to Yin/Yang theory, the underside or fleshy part of the arm is Yin. The outer part or hard part of the arm is Yang. When we look at Udo and Uloko, what do we see?

Udo has his arm with the Yang part exposed. Uloko has his arm with the Yin Part exposed. So what? What you mean so what? Don't you guys know anything?

Yin cancels Yang right? Udo puts out his hand with the Yang part exposed. So Uloko purposely turns his arms Yin side up. His Yin force is canceling Udo's Yang force. If Udo physically attacks, Uloko's Yin force is right there ready to take on Udo's Yang force.

I will let you absorb that. Then I come back and tell you how this information helps you diagnose where the bodybuilder has lost his Yin to increase his Yang.

(EDIT: I don't wanna forget. Udo is trying to control Uloko with the Yang arm down like that, as in Darth Vader control of Uloko's body. Uloko turns his hands to the Yin position to resist this Darth Vader control.

Yang is a crushing force, a killing force. Yin is an expanding force, a living force. Udo 's Yang hand is trying to crush Uloko. He is trying to use his Yang to crush Uloko's Yin force. If he succeeds, Uloko will feel fear. Uloko puts his arms out palm out to help his Yin force counteract the crushing Yang force.)

[anerlich]

Have you figured out where I am going already?

Sure have!

Nowhere, slowly.

[lada]

Sure have!

Nowhere, slowly.

Darn. I was hoping someone would get the hints. Oh well.

Ok. We got this guy in this picture who we agree is Yang because of his massive muscles. He is a man and the hard muscles make him more Yang.

According to Yin/Yang theory, everyone has Yin/Yang inside of them. A man is Yang and a women is Yin. Let's arbitrarily make a scale of from 1 to 10. This scale is a measure of the Yin/Yang in a person.

A man we will designate as 6 Yang and 4 Yin for a total of 10. The man has 6 Yang which is more than 4 Yin so the man is Yang. The woman is the opposite. The woman is 6 Yin and 4 Yang. The woman has 6 Yin which is more than 4 Yang so she is Yin. 6 + 4 = 10, the total of our arbitrary scale.

The man in the picture is extra Yang as we have discussed. This means the designation of the man has to increase. Again we will be just arbitrary. This man has lots of big muscles so let's say that the man is now 8 Yang.

If the man's Yang increased to 8, where did the 2 come from? He was only at 6. Our scale only goes to 10. If the man's Yang increases from 6 to 8, there is only one place that 2 can come from. It has to come from the Yin. This means that our man is now 8 Yang, 2 Yin = 10 total from the scale.

We all know that people are supposed to be balanced. a 6 to 4 ratio is out of balance but it is necessary to distinguish the man from the woman. But an 8 to 2 ration of Yang to Yin? Doesn't that just look bad? There is a 6 difference, 8-2 = 6. This man is probably going to be unhealthy don't you think? Just using your common sense, does'nt the amount of imbalance seem like it would cause a problem?

What if you put 10 pounds of pressure in the tires on the left side of your car and 40 pounds of pressure in the right side tires of your car? It rides funny right? The suspension gets beat up because of the angle of the car. You might have an accident and get hurt because the car is not balanced from right to left on the tires.

That was all just talking to get you thinking. The real question is.......What happens to the man as a result of being 8 Yang to 2 Yin? What exactly happens to his body when he take 2 Yin and gives it to the Yang so the Yang goes to 8?

We can see what happens to the Yang. The Yang goes to 8 and muscles pop out all over his body. What is it that we see that indicates what happened to the Yin?

It is right there in front of your face if you look. The obvious part anyways. The deeper, "secret of kung fu" part is a little more difficult to see.

To be clear so there is no mistake. The muscles indicate the effect of extra Yang. What do you see in this man's body that shows the effect of less Yin?


There is an answer Anerlich. I am not kidding you. It is right there in front of your eyes.

[Mutant]

Great thread, LOL!

[Merryprankster]

Ray, you're starting to catch on!

The pitcher example is a great example. Small variations can produce different results! But that is all they are SMALL VARIATIONS ON A THEME!

I used to play baseball and pitch a bit, and the ball behaves differently depending on how you hold it and snap your wrist.

But the rest of the movements - the gross motor stuff is the same. Your body moves the same way and looks the same because that's the best way to deliver the ball to the target.

The movements involved in throwing a curve ball are what, 95% the same as those throwing a fast ball. Why? Because the act of pitching employs the same PRINCIPLES, regardless of the pitch thrown. The grip and wrist change the outcome, but these are small variations. If you can't get the principles of pitching down, those small variations won't matter anyway.

And that has been my point all along. You have been claiming some sort of major difference in principle - it just isn't there. You have variations, sure, but none of them violate the principles of good punching. The principles transcend the relatively minor differences present in stylistic comparisons.

For the record, I somewhat resent that world is flat comment. I don't say that your style is the same as boxing. I say that the principles of punching you employ are the same. HOW you employ them, including timing, preferences, and the subtle variations in technique make what people do "special and unique." But that does not chalk up to new or different principles - why? Because like the curveball/fastball example, the minor technique differences can produce different outcomes, but the fundamental principles cannot be violated if you want good results.

My "special and unique" comments are reserved for the "Well, we have THIS principle, which is ours and its unique and nobody else does it." Wrong answer. You have technical specialties and particular solutions to the problem of combat, which all rely on the same principles everybody else is using. For instance, if you want to do a joint break, you have to isolate the limb from the rest of the body, remove space to prevent it rejoining the body, and hyperextend or hyperrotate the joint. It doesn't matter whether it is a BJJ jointlock, Aikido, or Chin Na, or even a striking lock/break. Those are the PRINCIPLES involved. The execution has millions of variations on that theme, but all employ those three principles.

I have believed all along that you and I were talking past each other, and I didn't know how to make the connection. Perhaps this is it?

Just so you know, ANYBODY could add a new dimension to my punching. So saying that is like saying I could teach you a thing or two about groundwork