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Thread: Does wing chun lack fluidity?

  1. #1
    Raatra Guest

    Does wing chun lack fluidity?

    i believe that fluidity is essential to an effective art. by fluidity i mean the smooth and continuous transition from one technique, stance, ect., to another. now i find this prevalent in wing chun's hand techniques with its emphasis on chi sao and sensitivity. however, i dont see it as evidently in its footwork, stances or leg techniques. its stancework is especially rigid to me. although it is relatively useful for forward and backward movement, i think it lacks a bit of preparation for circular and some side movement. the weight being 100% on the back leg leaves you vulnerable to being pushed over or simply unbalanced. also, in the stance there is no freedom and by that i mean you simply remain in the stance. i am used to continuous motion rarely remaining still. intraining students 'flow' with eachother similar to chi sao only utilizing the entire body. this is done very slowly and in my opinion greatly aids the development of instinctual technique. i recently began studying wing chun and would be interested in hearing any opinions about this. perhaps i simply dont understand.

  2. #2
    WT Guest
    Yes,fluidity is important and your Wing Chun
    should be fluid.
    I think footwork is one of the most misunderstood aspects of Wing Chun.
    It should not be rigid.
    The 100/0 stance is very stable backwards and forwards.If you are pulled forward,the forward leg prevents you from from falling
    forward.When you are pulled you just take a forward step and attack.
    The front foot is pressed in to the ground,
    with knee-adduction,making it very hard to unbalance you backwards.
    Still,if the force is to great,you turn.
    If you are pushed or pulled from the side you use footwork to adjust your balance.
    I find WT footwork to be very fluid and not rigid at all.

  3. #3
    vingtsunstudent Guest
    hi raatra
    i don't know where to start, so if this is all over the place please fogive me.
    both my sifu & especially my sigung were very well know for their fighting abilities in hong kong so our style places great emphasis on footwork.(which can be the key to winning or losing a fight)
    we first learn single then double dan chi followed by this piont where we differ from a lot of other wing chun schools, at least to my knowledge ,is that after a student is shown rolling they will at least spend 8 months to 1 year (depending on the amount of time they train)on first stepping back at 45 degrees from the chi sao position(until they are quite fluid) & then stepping foward at 45, only then will they start to learn chi sao.
    what i try to enphasis is that without good footwork they will more than likely have to use their hands to get them in & out of fighting range which leaves the hands unable to do their job correctly, which is to smack the hell out of the opponent.
    look at it this way, a good boxer's footwork can get him in & out of trouble so it is the same with us & all other fighting styles, infact a friend of mine who boxed for at least 15 years said to me that the thing he was above all else impressed with was the footwork which we employed.(he'd never had anyone tie him up or crowd him so easily as when we used to play around)
    i can't comment on the 100/0 stance or the adduction of the knees as we don't have this & as yet i have had no-one be able to explain it to me on the forum(i know there are many different ways people do vt & that it is very difficult to descibe them in this forum so pleas forgive my ignorance)but i will say that i personally feel that this could be a limiting factor as to why your footwork may lack mobility.(again don't jump down my throat as this is only my opinion)
    all we really ephasis is that waist is constantly locked in a foward position(and faces the opponent) & that the knees are always slightly bent.
    again there is a lot more i could say about stepping but i feel in this medium it would not come out as well as if we were able to talk in person so i would therfore rather not say anything or have anyone start practicing bad habits that are a ***** to fix.
    the key to good vt footwork,no matter what branch of the tree you come from is simple-
    PRACTICE, PRACTICE & then just when you think it's going ok PRACTICE even more.
    one more thing,as i have mentioned in a previous post, when fighting the stance is not kept rigid, in fact a good vt man will probably look more like a boxer(except without the bouncing around).the idea that you stand in the one place has a lot to do with the fact that many vt teachers in the early days in hong kong didn't use the ideas of what their fellow students learnt through engaging in challenge matches(this is no way meant to be disrespectful)so even though they may know the entire system their knowledge of how to apply it to real fighting can sometimes be lacking.
    sorry again if i may have offended anyone but that is just my opinion, on footwork, as to you will have yours(which i will look foward to hearing)
    thanx again

  4. #4
    Sandman2[Wing Chun] Guest
    Well, if you just started training in Wing Chun, of course your footwork lacks fluidity. It probably took me 3 months just to really get comfortable with the basic forward stance. I used to think it was the most awkward, unusable thing in the world, I felt wobbly, unstable, and severely hindered. Why? Because my stance work sucked... [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Seriously, once you get used to it, the footwork is great. There are a variety of stepping patterns that will eventually become second nature to you, if you practice. It just takes some time. Remember, wing chun IS a full body art, where you train yourself you move your entire body as a single unit. Heh, it just takes a little our school, you start just doing the basic toh ma stepping, and combining that with had techniques, but you begin learning other footwork after a few months. The thing is, with out solid basics, none of the more "advanced" stepping is worth a ****. Actually, best thing you could do, check with more long term students where you are learning, see what their footwork is like. You may find it enlightening.

    Sandman[Wing Chun]
    Moderator - Wing Chun Forum.

  5. #5
    Scott Guest
    Actually, you aren't supposed to have 100% of your weight on the back leg. More like 70% back leg, 30% front leg; at least that's what I was taught with traditional Yip Man Wing Chun. When you kick, then of course you transfer weight, but that is a downside of kicking regardless of what martial art you take


  6. #6
    Sihing73 Guest
    Hi Scott,

    Actually 100% weight on the rear leg is found in WT as well as one or two other lineages. All also from Yip Man.

    As tot he question of fluidity I think this discussion is progressing well enough without me. Still, in the beginning one is more rigid but as one learns the system one should become more moblie. I think that some confusion may arise due to the fact that some methods opt more for stance turning while others have more stepping. Each has its place and time. But, I think the ones opting for stepping tend to be more mobile and perhaps more fluid.



  7. #7
    WT Guest
    What are the other lineages that uses the
    100/0 stance?

  8. #8
    Sihing73 Guest
    HI WT,

    Allow me to clarify what I said;

    100/0 is found in several branches from Yip Man however Wing Tsun/Wingtsun is the only one I know of which uses it exclusively. What I am referring to is the Bic Bo steps which are used to chase an opponent. I know that my first WC instructor who was of Augustine Fongs lineage taught to utilize 100/0 when using this movement and that Chung Kwok Chow of New York has done this as well. Those are the only two which I have personal experience with. In both methods the lead leg is empty and you are driving in with all of the weight on the rear leg. Still, as I said, WT is the only lineage which I know of to use this method exclusively for all of its footwork. In several other versions there is more of a 70/30 or 60/40 split, even when performing the Bic Bo.

    Sorry if I caused any confusion. My aim was to point out that 100/0 is a viable method which also comes from Yip Man.



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