Originally Posted by
KC Elbows
First, we share the world with catholics, who, imo, look tolerant in comparison to many baptists on the gay topic.
Second, if you are suggesting that sodomy(in biblical terms) is a sin, and thus, being gay is, I challenge you to find any source before the tenth century that interprets sodomy(in biblical terms) as anything but failing to treat a guest well.
The interpretation of sodomy(i.e. the sin of the sodomites) during well over half of Catholic history had nothing to do with ****sexuality. Certainly not during the time the old testament was compiled, or even when Christ was around. Not for the gnostics, nor any of the early popes(including the gay ones).
Of course, I'm not even religious. But I know that much.
Additionally, our modern world is the direct legacy of a bunch of gay roman emporers who assumed power after a bunch of gay greeks lost it.
History favors the swish, and not the tenth century REVISION of what "sodomy" actually means to God.
My interest in asking the question was based on my observation that most of you are either atheists or philosophically Buddhist, Taoist, etc. The Pope has no authority over you, and since he was talking about *gay marriage* in this case, all he really said was "we catholics won't be marrying gays".
There are other denominations, you know. Different churches, some with apostolic successions and everything, will do so. The Episcopalians are almost on the verge of schism because they do it & the Presbyterians, Lutherans have their own very liberal views. One branch of Judaism will perform same-sex marriages.
With the exception of the Judaic branch, all of these denominations are suffering losses in membership while they cater to an admitted minority's whims. If the Episcopalians do schism [and they'll likely take the Anglicans of Canada with them] that will end a historical era, since it will break up a worldwide communion that has existed since the 1600's.
There are repercussions from bowing to the public's whims that are very different from those a government might suffer. I'm not going to fault the Pope for adhering to his church's teachings & reining in those elements within it who would do it damage by changing things around thoughtlessly.
Your second point: I said, clearly, that being gay was not a sin. Its a fine poiint, I'll admit, but it should've been an easy one to grasp. Your 'challenge' is not one I'll raise to, thank you very much. If you want to revise the Bible, go right ahead. There's entire cottage industries devoted to it.
For your second post:
Puh-lease. Are you playing the 'persecuted gay' card? I've already stated: They can get married elsewhere. Meantime expend your energies where they really are persecuted: The Middle East, where they are killed by law.
Last edited by ZIM; 06-07-2005 at 08:02 AM.
-Thos. Zinn
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Nor let unreason'd tempers rise
Your little hands were never meant
To pluck out one anothers eyes"
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