Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 31

Thread: TKD Instructor as Expert Witness versus MMA Lawyer

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Posts
    5,520
    Quote Originally Posted by SevenStar
    he's merely discrediting the guy's argument. He's saying that being a world champ in forms will in no way equate to the guy being as deadly as his teacher claims.
    Sure, there's the MMA undercurrent there, but it's the same way that I would have approached the guy's argument. It's the same way that any good lawyer, a martial artist or not, would have approaced the guy's argument.

    And MK, you would make a good lawyer. You like to argue enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    294
    C'mon if that guy was really trying to argue that the defendant would've killed/maimed his wife if he had hit her (due to his deadly TKD training), he deserved to get called out on his BS by anyone who has an ounce of knowledge about functional MA. Anyone, regardless of style, who'd try to make an argument like that is obviously a phony with delusions of grandeur. Nevermind the fact that he could be trying to get a wife beating scumbag off the hook with his "expert" testimony. Heck I'm sure there's plenty of sensible TKD experts who'd call that guy an idiot. It just reeks of that pseudo aura of imagined deadliness so common among second rate MA'ists who've never been in a real fight in their lives.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    36th Chamber
    Posts
    12,419
    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Pen
    And MK, you would make a good lawyer. You like to argue enough.
    It's the shave-everyday, wear-a-suit-and-tie-to-work, polish-your-shoes thing that keeps me out of law school.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Posts
    5,520
    Eh, there's different types of lawyers out there. Find you niche with clients that don't shave, do kung fu and love Star Wars and you'll be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  5. #20
    I am reminded of the show the discovery channel had on a while ago "Extreme Martial Arts" where they follow this karate guy who was trying to make a come back in forms competition. They kept calling him a 3 time word martial arts champion. All during the program I kept thinking to myself "this guy's punches suck". They tried to have him break something and they had slow motion photos of him hitting it. Since he couldn't break it and they had to fill some time. His wrist was all out of alignment and his form was awful. Some of these forms guys are just gynmnasts with karate uniforms.

    By the way the TKD I took was mostly sparring. They guys who were really good could kick like nobody's business, but their hand work was just so so. That's part of the reason I ended up leaving TKD, because I didn't know what to do if someone was punching at me.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Western MASS
    Posts
    4,812
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonzRage
    C'mon if that guy was really trying to argue that the defendant would've killed/maimed his wife if he had hit her (due to his deadly TKD training), he deserved to get called out on his BS by anyone who has an ounce of knowledge about functional MA. Anyone, regardless of style, who'd try to make an argument like that is obviously a phony with delusions of grandeur. Nevermind the fact that he could be trying to get a wife beating scumbag off the hook with his "expert" testimony. Heck I'm sure there's plenty of sensible TKD experts who'd call that guy an idiot. It just reeks of that pseudo aura of imagined deadliness so common among second rate MA'ists who've never been in a real fight in their lives.

    very good young one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Mantis View Post
    Genes too busy rocking the gang and scarfing down bags of cheetos while beating it to nacho ninjettes and laughing at the ridiculous posts on the kfforum. In a horse stance of course.

  7. #22
    What a ******* TKD freak. TKD sucks anyways, but I won't get into that so I'll leave it there.

    You're front Ft. Lauderdale? There's a good CLF school there. . . don't know why I'm saying this but whatever, lol.

    Good luck in your case. Peace

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Science City Zero
    Posts
    4,763
    Quote Originally Posted by Mighty Scott
    karate guy
    There was ONE karate man on that show, and he was on it for less than 5 minutes. The ONE kung fu man was on less than that.

    The rest of the show was about 2 hours of suck.
    BreakProof BackŪ Back Health & Athletic Performance
    https://sellfy.com/p/BoZg/

    "Who dies first," he mumbled through smashed and bloody lips.

  9. #24
    FYI, this is a re-post from another forum...I have nothing to do with the case

  10. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Portland, OR
    Posts
    3,379
    The thing I kept thinking whilst reading this was; why would a supposed, respected "master" of TKD be going to court in defence of a student who is facing charges of domestic violence from beating his wife?!?!
    A man has only one death. That death may be as weighty as Mt. Tai, or it may be as light as a goose feather. It all depends upon the way he uses it....
    ~Sima Qian

    Master pain, or pain will master you.
    ~PangQuan

    "Just do your practice. Who cares if someone else's practice is not traditional, or even fake? What does that have to do with you?"
    ~Gene "The Crotch Master" Ching

    You know you want to click me!!

  11. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sub. of Chicago - Downers Grove
    Posts
    6,772
    That thought has crossed my mind too.
    Those that are the most sucessful are also the biggest failures. The difference between them and the rest of the failures is they keep getting up over and over again, until they finally succeed.


    For the Women:

    + = & a

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Fremont, CA, U.S.A.
    Posts
    43,746

    slightly OT

    I'm cannibalizing this thread for Martial Arts Expert Witnesses. If it grows as such in years to come, I'll change the title (although it's got a pretty hilarious start, yes?)

    Martial arts expert, prosecuter demonstrate struggle during stiletto murder trial
    Posted: 04.07.2014 at 5:10 PM

    (AP) -- Attorneys for a Houston woman accused of fatally stabbing her boyfriend with her stiletto heel brought in a martial arts expert to demonstrate for jurors at her trial how they believe she was attacked on the night of the killing.

    Ana Trujillo is charged with murder in the death of 59-year-old Alf Stefan Andersson. Investigators say Trujillo struck him at least 25 times in the face with her shoe during an argument at his Houston condominium in June. Trujillo's attorney says the 45-year-old woman was defending herself from Andersson.

    During the trial in Houston Monday, martial arts expert Chris Martinez and another man performed a demonstration in which the two rolled on the ground trying to recreate the struggle Trujillo alleges happened between her and Andersson.
    I've had to give depositions as such, but I've never been in a courtroom. Not yet at least.
    Gene Ching
    Publisher www.KungFuMagazine.com
    Author of Shaolin Trips
    Support our forum by getting your gear at MartialArtSmart

  13. #28
    I find the whole topic of "expert witness'" to be quite fascinating. So when it's a doctor, they have a nice shiny phd to call on. And even then you come across quite a few flakes. What exactly qualifies a MA expert? An ITK certificate for chest punching and yelling loud? A stable of professional fighters? A pro record? What would the court deem more credible, an honorary title in MT or TKD? It all seems so subjective. I guess the best guys to call would be people who train others for actual combat. Like a close combat instructor for the military or the police, but then what about the defense? Who do they call to counter the bias? I mean, you really wanna put a dog brother, or whatever, on the stand for a trial involving a knifing?

  14. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Knoxville Tennessee
    Posts
    5,520

    What qualifies someone as an expert witness?

    The qualifications for someone to be an expert witness varies from state to state. Each state has their own Rules of Evidence and cases that address the qualifications of a witness to testify in the form of an expert opinion. Typically, it involves scientific, technical or other specialized knowledge that would assist (or sometimes "substantially assist") the trier of fact (judge or jury) and the witness must be qualified as an expert based on their knowledge, skill, experience, training or education. (See Rules 702 of the Tennessee Rules of Evidence and Rule 702 of the Federal Rules of Evidence). Their opinions can be challenged, or even excluded, if they are unreliable or would not "assist the trier of fact" Non-exclusive factors for weighing the credibility of the expert evidence or testimony include: (1) whether the evidence has been tested and the methodology has been tested; (2) whether the evidence has been subjected to peer review or publication; (3) whether a potential rate of error is known; (4) whether the evidence is generally accepted in its industry or field; and (5) whether the expert's research in the field has been conducted independent of litigation. There are other factors, too numerous to list, that could come into play depending on the case or the types of opinions solicited.

    Whether or not an expert is qualified to testify is in the sound discretion of the trial court after considering these factors. But the introduction of an expert's opinion is not determinative of an issue, or the ultimate issue, in a case. A judge or jury can give that expert's opinion whatever weight it feels is appropriate--even completely discounting an opinion. I've won several cases where the opposing side had an expert, and I did not, just by showing the jury that the opinion of the expert was contrary to common sense and experience.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oso View Post
    AND, yea, a good bit of it is about whether you can fight with what you know...kinda all of it is about that.

  15. #30
    Can you name an MA expert that you personally feel you have no chance of discrediting? You see what I'm getting at here, right? Not everything runs along side intuition. Some things are VERY counterintuitive. At what point are most people in a courtroom even remotely qualified to judge whether somebody is an MA expert? Regardless of the paper they carry.

    With, say, physics, it's easy. Oh look, dude has a degree from and works for this great school. He has been peer reviewed like a mother****er and has all the institutional backing anyone could ask for. But with MA's, no such agreement exists between bodies the way it does in academia.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •