Wing Chun Fighters? Where ya at

[Edmund]

Not blind, first post was just clarifying my argument. Second one I was just asking a question about the blind faith many have in TMAs. That is all. Perhaps if more wing chun practitioners are motivated to compete, the whole system as a whole will benefit.

Read the forum before you assume no one competes. I know we lost a lot of posts recently but regardless... You shouldn't assume.

To add to the WC results, a student of ours won a local amateur muay thai title a couple of weeks ago.

[stricker]

I'm stoked that there are people doing amatuer fights and doing well, but the fact that a wing chun guy aint won a ufc doesnt mean a thing bad about wing chun. For every thousands of thai or bjj fighters out there very very few make it to ufc. So few wing chun people tournment fight at all so it makes sense there havent been any ufc winners yet.

[lawrenceofidaho]

you're judging WC because the practitioners don't compete in tournaments that the WC community as a whole seems uninterested in?

It puzzles me that the WC community is NOT interested in those events.......WC is (supposedly) a fighting art, so why shouldn't it's adherants be interested in what some of the best fighters on the planet are doing when they mix it up?

-Lawrence

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Lawrence, some people want to fight professionally. Those people have to devote lots of time training. Unless you're well off you'll need a sponsor of some sort. If the average working Joe fights and gets hurt how will he take care of bills? So people who say the any martial art needs to be in the UFC/NBH, etc., have to take that into consideration. I do agree with you that some sort of training against a resisting opponent should be done so as not to have a false sense of security. What I've done with my students is them have them buy protective gear. That way they can go all out in safety and at least get an idea of how to deal with punches and how to issue power under pressure. I have to add that street fights don't always depend on skill. Anything can happen.
PR

[MSN13]

Well I think this thread was asking why no good repersentatives from Wing Chun
are not competeing in the UFC.

[Edmund]

Didn't some WC guy win in UK's Cage Rage or something?

Sigh. Guess some on the forum just have a bone to pick regardless of whatever WC people actually do.

[anerlich]

Well I think this thread was asking why no good repersentatives from Wing Chun are not competeing in the UFC.

Actually, the thread was a troll attempt and asking for trouble and not much else.

AS Phil said, to reach the elite level in MMA (UFC, Pride, etc.) you need to be training full time, to those rules. You also need to at least train grappling escapes and takedown and submission defense intensely even if you do not pursue submission grappling/BJJ.

Any WCer who wanted to compete in these events would need to cross train, and would be much better off doing that at an MMA gym. His WC training would have to go on the back burner.

"Pure" WC is a poor choice if your goal is world class MMA success. Doesn't mean it's no good for self-defense or other things.

Some of my sidais have competed successfully at MMA. But there's no way they would have succeeded without a solid grounding (no pun intended) in the BJJ which is also taught at our academies.

[MSN13]

The UFC is an excellent forum for knowing what works and what doesn't. If two highly-trained professionals can cream each other with it, a well trained ametuer should be able to fight off an untrained drunkard assailant. And if styles like Wing Chun are so effective, why aren't they dominating the UFC? It's the best legal proving grounds there is.

[Edmund]

It's the best legal proving grounds there is.

So is Cage Rage!

[anerlich]

And if styles like Wing Chun are so effective, why aren't they dominating the UFC? It's the best legal proving grounds there is.

I think I answered that already, but let me put it another way: you could replace "Wing Chun" with "boxing", "karate", "BJJ" (maybe not in 1994 but certainly now) in the above statement and it would be true. No pure stylists win in the UFC.

A professional MMA fighter needs to take skills from a variety of disciplines. That's why very few "purists" of any style are successful in elite MMA events these days.

If you still don't understand, I'll have to use words of one syllable. Unless I decide you're just trolling, in which case I won't bother.

[stricker]

I think you might mean Sami Berik if you're talking about wing chun in Cage Rage. A few choice quotes from his website :

I think most people might miss what Wing Chun has to offer. I don't mean prancing about in the cage like zorro. The sensitivity drills it has alone, and taught me some angles of entry.

I have mainly used the approach of using Thai boxing with a Tai Chi structure, whilst Wing Chun for sensitivity and taking things as they come.

[lawrenceofidaho]

some sort of training against a resisting opponent should be done so as not to have a false sense of security. What I've done with my students is them have them buy protective gear. That way they can go all out in safety and at least get an idea of how to deal with punches and how to issue power under pressure.

Phil,

When I referred to the wing chun community's general lack of interest in UFC/NHB/MMA , I didn't necessarily mean that I feel the majority of WC folks ought to enter those events as competitors, but it would be a great help for more WC schools to begin integrating at least some of the training methods (if not techniques) of proven fighters who are testing their craft in that arena (as it sounds you are doing already).

If one trains like a fighter, and continually works against realistic techniques thrown at them by other fighters, their style or system will adapt and become more pragmatic and combat effective.

Adapting and evolving is a key advantage of MMA. -If a new technique or strategy is employed in a widely televised competition, then the following week there will be thousands of people working on this new stuff, and also how to defend it. There will be talk of it on forums of how to take it further, and improve upon it. Wheras, unfortunately, WC is often trained almost exactly how it was in HK in the 1960s. MMA provides a great model of success in producing high level fighters, and I think WC would do well to try and learn from it so that, it too, can go forward.

-Lawrence

[Edmund]

Wheras, unfortunately, WC is often trained almost exactly how it was in HK in the 1960s.

I don't think so. There's plenty of WC people who have evolved new training methods worldwide. Whether others take any interest in what they're doing is up to them. People are going to click with certain philosophies and not others.

I occasionally mention Muay Thai on this forum and not everyone is going to be interested. I expect that. Some people are heading into different avenues. (The i-ching for instance. )

[Ravenshaw]

The only reason I say there seems to be little interest among WC groups in competing in NHB is that I don't hear about (m)any who do. I think it mostly has to do with the fact that muay thai, judo, etc. are either sports or highly encourage competition as its primary application. The WT I practice has been used successfully in competition (and I'm sure other WC groups can say the same), but self-defense is emphasized.

Also, most people who kickbox don't even compete in kickboxing tournaments... so there's still only a small percentage who would want to do UFC. The main difference is that far more kickboxers compete in general than WC guys.

[sihing]

I don't think so. There's plenty of WC people who have evolved new training methods worldwide. Whether others take any interest in what they're doing is up to them. People are going to click with certain philosophies and not others.

I occasionally mention Muay Thai on this forum and not everyone is going to be interested. I expect that. Some people are heading into different avenues. (The i-ching for instance. )

I agree...Lawerence is mistaken if he thinks ALL Wing Chun Masters and Sifu's are training like it was in the 60's, lol. But writing on this forum does nothing to prove otherwise so why waste the time...

James