Sun Hei Gwai Yuen

[taichi4eva]

Does anyone have any more information about these qigong exercises? In the Pan Nam lineage, there are only 5, but in the Yuen Kay San lineage there are many...On "wingchunkuen.com" it says that Sun Hei Gwai Yuen and Ng Jee Mui Fa Hei Gung are the same. Are they in fact different then?

I was wondering if there was any video of these exercises. I was on plumpub.com, and saw under the Wong Fei Hung Kung Fu series, that their were two qigong vcds

1. Wong Fei Hung Health Exercises
"Many small but interesting Chi Kung motions. Animal actions are intemixed with movement which might resemble Tai Chi to many people. Some nice exercises especially for martial artists. Most of these Chi Kung exercises are definitely martial in color and flavor."

2. Wong Fei Hung 38 Health Methods
"A series of very good self massage actions broken down into three main groups. Many of these are classic Temple exercises for health maintenance."

Would the Sun Hei Gwai Yuen exercises resemble the former? I don't think the exercises contain any elements of massage.

Thank you.

[Edmund]

The wingchunkuen site describes all the movements. I don't recall it saying that the qigong was identical to Pan Nam's.

I'd say they don't resemble taichi much at all.
Not really any animal movements. Haven't seen any Wong Fei Hung vcds so I can't draw any comparisons. You could massage yourself after you finish doing them. I wouldn't call that formally part of the qigong though.

You've got 7 different exercises. It's a very simple qigong.
1. Stretching arms up and down.
2. Twist side to side
3. side bends
4. kinda twisting arm contortions. see wingchunkuen site for photos.
5. Stretch arms up and down and then elbows back to open up the chest.
6. combination of half back arch and squat
7. an arm circling movement.

[taichi4eva]

Pan Nam Weng Chun Kuen (Peng Nan Yongchunquan), sometimes refered to as Fatsan Siu Lam Weng Chun (Foshan Shaolin Yongchunquan), was founded by Pan Nam, who had a 30 year background in Hung Kuen, based on his experience in the Chan Yiu-Min Weng Chun Kuen and Lai Hip-Chi Weng Chun Kuen systems and the addition of such forms as the Hung Kuen Fu Mei Seung Do and the Ng Jee Mui Fa Hei Gong (which some now refer to as Sun Hei Gwai Yuen) of Ng Man-Long into the system.

Edmund, can you give me a specific link?

[Edmund]

Sure. No problemo:


Wing Chun Qigong: Kidney Breathing Return Invigoration

[wongjunlam]

The Sun Hei Gwai Yuen Hei Gong and the Mh Ji Mui Hei Gong are two different forms. They have different effects on the body. The Sun Hei Gwai Yuen relaxes and stretches out the body as well as improving breathing and nurishing the kidneys and is a straight up Hei Gong form. Mh Ji Meui is a different animal. It is what we would call a Leui Gong Form, not a Hei Gong Form (the two different termenologies have been mixed together in recent years). It Develops the tendons and bones, as well as re aligning joints.

WJL

[reneritchie]

What that means is that some Pan Nam people are now calling the Ng Jee Mui Fa Hei Gong by the name Sun Hei Gwai Yuen, even though the set is completely different.

I'll edit the text to make that clearer, I guess.

Sun Hei Gwai Yuen looks more like some Bagua Qigong I learned a long time ago. Sum Nung called it Yit Gan (Yi Jin) or tendon changing movements.

I've seen Ng Jee Mui Fa but don't remember it, other than it being much different

There's also a linked SHGY set Sum Nung was teaching in the late 90s which has similar content to the 7 separate moves.

[wongjunlam]

Hi Rene,

I know. It just apeared to me that people might start thinking that the two are one in the same form. No big deal.

WJL

What that means is that some Pan Nam people are now calling the Ng Jee Mui Fa Hei Gong by the name Sun Hei Gwai Yuen, even though the set is completely different.

I'll edit the text to make that clearer, I guess.

Sun Hei Gwai Yuen looks more like some Bagua Qigong I learned a long time ago. Sum Nung called it Yit Gan (Yi Jin) or tendon changing movements.

I've seen Ng Jee Mui Fa but don't remember it, other than it being much different

There's also a linked SHGY set Sum Nung was teaching in the late 90s which has similar content to the 7 separate moves.

[reneritchie]

No, thanks, you're correct and I wouldn't want to confuse anyone.

[Hendrik]

Sun Hei Gwai Yuen , kidney qi return to its origin,

what is it means?

Is the theme and process of the art support the title of the art ?

Is the title of the art represent the theme and process of the art?

What is the purpose of introducing the art into WCK training?



Why is Sun Hei Gwai Yuen is needed if YJKYM platform is capable to naturally raise the leg 3 yings medirians qi at inhale .....ect?



lots of questions. lots of perspective. lots of possibilities. lots of investigaions..... leave that to the future archeologist and hopelly when they get done with it, they turn into alchemist --- those who can manage energy and power in the energy realm and manifest into the physical realm.

[Yoshiyahu]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJe7k..._order&list=UL

Sun Hei Gwai Yuen



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGrLeLyEMkE


Kidney Breathing

[Grufty]

I thought I would comment on this thread as the OP mentioned the Qigong in the Pan Nam lineage and thats something that I currently practice.

I can't comment on the Qigong in the Yuen Kay San lineage as I don't know it and I also don't know the chinese name for the Qigong that I do.

The Qigong I do is called "5 Petal Plum" or "Kidney Breathing Returns Qi to the Source". I wouldn't say there was only 5 exercises; maybe 5 sets of exercises but there's alot more than 5 movements.

From the 2 video's posted above; the one entitled "Kidney Breathing" looks very similar to what I do, but does have slight differences. Firstly; what is shown in the video is only a small part of the entire form, plus the position of my body is lower (apart from when he bends his back, I'm nowhere near that flesible) and each position is held for a lot longer.

The form itself is sort of like a standing Qigong rather than a Tai Chi type Qigong as there are loads of positions that you stay in for a short while before moving onto the next.

I've read loads of comparisons between Pan Nam's Qigong and Yuen Kay San's Qigong; I cannot say how similar they are as I only know what I do, but from what is shown in that video (which says it is from Sum Nung), is slightly similar to the Pan Nam Qigong...

[Phil Redmond]

Sure. No problemo:


Wing Chun Qigong: Kidney Breathing Return Invigoration

Thanks for the link. (btw, it's No problema not problemo)

[LoneTiger108]

I've read loads of comparisons between Pan Nam's Qigong and Yuen Kay San's Qigong; I cannot say how similar they are as I only know what I do, but from what is shown in that video (which says it is from Sum Nung), is slightly similar to the Pan Nam Qigong...

I would like to add that my Sigung also had qigong/Heigung practises that 'sound' very similar to what you describe here although I haven't looked through the clips to see if the sets are similar or not.

Wow! Such an old thread getting a new lease of life... and very worthwhile too IMO