Wing Chun instructors

[XINDU]

An instructor who never gets dirty and avoids fighting you because he's afraid to hurt you is useless. The fact is many instructors are often just scared of being humiliated in front of a full class of "paying" students. Any good instructor knows, they can always learn more, even from a student. A truly skilled martial artist never stands in front of another man expecting to learn nothing. "The investment in loss," (as Chen Man Ching speaks of) means that a loss is not a failure if you walk away from it with something besides the bruises. Without loss there are no skills, no learning, and no advancement.

Instructors and students should all work towards that confidence in our abilities, to train like we fight and fight like we train. In the streets, there will be no one to call the match or stop the time. Do everything you can to prepare yourself for the potential attack of a madman. Devise worst-case scenarios and try to recreate them as closely as you can in a controlled environment. Feel the sudden rush of adrenaline when you fear being hurt, and feel the sudden drop in strength and speed when you deplete your adrenaline stores. Experience what it's like to be disoriented by single or multiple blows. Only when you're familiar with these sensations can you recognize them and maintain some semblance of focus.
Remember this, if your Sifu's only source of income comes from a handful of students be careful. The classes are softer in fear of losing the money students.

[XINDU]

Does it really help with business nowadays to use the term, "Grandmaster?" Or does it confuse students more, because they wonder who the real masters are? If you are a good teacher, it will show, regardless of your claim that you are a master. So doesn't this overused term sound rather ridiculous? The misuse of the term grandmaster has created significant political problems within wing chun, In other arts, such as music, dance, drama or even boxing, teachers don't need to use extravagant titles. How many grandmasters can beat Benny the Jet or Mike Tyson? These people do not even call themselves masters, nor their coaches. I am sure people that love Wing Chun as an art are tired of those people that use Wing Chun wrongly and for their own selfish uses. They use Wing Chun as a tool to make themselves famous, rather than using Wing Chun for the good of mankind. People can still use the art of Wing Chun for business by decently teaching it as an instructor.

[stonecrusher69]

when the title goes up the skill goes down.

[Mortal1]

Xindu

I agree with many things you say. Except this one. A true master has nothing to learn from a student. I have sparred with my Sifu and basically it is just him abusing me. I'm no beginner. When I spar the other students I usually do well. When I spar him I just get spanked. My point is there is nothing I could teach my sifu. Or at least not about kung fu anyway. lol.

Where do you train? Who is your master?

[azwingchun]

My point is there is nothing I could teach my sifu. Or at least not about kung fu anyway. lol.

I would disagree with you here. He may not mention it to you, but you are always learning, even from people less skilled than you. Teaching is where the real training and learning come in!

[XINDU]

I had a situation with a sifu that I know I would have had no problem putting a whoopin on, but out of respect I chose not to spar with him and I believe he knew I could handled him so the subject was never pushed.

[Mark Swiadas]

Hi Xindu,

How do you reconcile your first statement ("Instructors who won't touch hands with you because they claim they know they can beat you are useless") with your last statement ("I didn't bother touching hands with someone but I knew I could beat him")? Whether you refuse to touch because of your own "deadliness", or because of your "having enough respect not to unleash your deadliness", both are nothing more than excuses not to touch hands.

And while on the subject, if you believe every teacher can be a student and every student a teacher (as I do), why would you refuse to spar with someone who is (theoretically) worse than you out of "respect"? I would think you would be more than happy to practice with anyone, regardless of how good or bad they are at what they do, let alone what title they have had placed upon them.

--Mark

[reneritchie]

When I met the late grandmaster Sum Nung, at almost 75 years of age, he was always jumping up out of his chair to touch hands, demo techniques, and fling my sihingdai and me across the room. In his humble opinion, the only way to teach was one-on-one. He said you had to sweat together.

[XINDU]

When I met the late grandmaster Sum Nung, at almost 75 years of age, he was always jumping up out of his chair to touch hands, demo techniques, and fling my sihingdai and me across the room. In his humble opinion, the only way to teach was one-on-one. He said you had to sweat together.

I agree my sifu did not spar with anybody he taught for 25 years and in my opinion was scared to get hit so I never pushed it. We always touched hands with the senior students. This was one of the reasons I quit training there.

[stuartm]

FWIW, I spar with all my students, if i get a clout its no big deal - it sjust about learning, no-one is keeping a tally. Generally in a fight, both people get hit anyway, very rare that a streetfight is so clean that the winner comes off without a scrape.

If my student sland a cracker, i praise them and say 'good shot' then o go back and ask why i got hit and we drill that particular sequence.

A sifu should be completely open with his students, there is nothing to hide.

I see myself as a student primarily, and some of my best teachers have not always beenmy teachers, but the students in my class who are always have something to offer.

Stu

[eadragon21]

One of my teachers once told me that a "master" is someone who has reached such a proficient level that no one could possibly teach him or show him anything that would be to his benefit. This is why he refused to be called master, just "sifu." He spars with us and routinely works out with some boxing and kickboxing friends of his. He has been doing this for probably twenty years now and his now 50+.

Xindu has brought up a good issue. If your teacher is afraid of getting hit by you, I would steer away. I think in order to truly advance in wing chun, you have to lose your ego and accept the fact that you're going to get hit sometimes, even by your own students if you're a teacher.

Peace all-

By the way, I would even go as far as saying it's impossible to truly become a "master." There is always, ALWAYS something more that you can learn no matter how long you've been doing Wing Chun for.

[stuartm]

Lets not forget that you can learn a hell of a lot by getting hit !!!!

[XINDU]

Question, are there any instructors that do not spar with their students, and why not? I know a Master in his fifties that says he is too old just scared he did not even let his students spar, BS I train with a 68 year old guy that will whoop most 20 year olds.

[cche7]

I recall a story my Sifu told me once. He said one of his former classmates, who's apparently a instructor now, told him that he doesn't do Chi Sao with any of his students because, and I quote, "he's afraid of ripping their heads off." My Sifu's response was, "Have you EVER ripped anyone's head off or are you just using that as an excuse because you're scared that one of your students will show you up?" Moral of the story, if someone talks big, they better have something to back it up. Like the old saying goes, either put up or shut up!!!