Chinese Martial Arts Business

[Shaolinlueb]

i was browsing through some of the pages and skimming the words. do you guys do your school full time and nothing else? if yes congrats on it. if not, do you set up answering machine service or have phone messages call forwarded some where? one of the things i have noticed is the phone. some people dont like to leave messages and its easier to talk them in for coming to an intro class if you pickup right away and answer all their question then call them back.

how many of you have after school programs? i know a lot of tkd and karate schools do them and make a butt load of extra cash. have any of you worked with them in the past at all? the kid market is hard with the "karate for kids" going on and schools that are strictly kid schools.

[Angelo F.]

Dear Sifu Parrella,

I would like to open a school within the next 6 months to a year and would like some advice on how to go about doing it.
I really enjoy reading your comments on the forum and have learned a lot. Since I have never been in business for myself I want to make sure I have as much knowledge and preparation (sales presentation, phone conversation, in person conversational skill, etc.) to make sure that I succeed in this venture. I know I will have more questions but have drawn some questions from some of your previous posts on the forum.
At your convenience, can you please find time to answer a few of the questions that follow. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Questions

What systems (improvements) did you develop (can a MA business owner make) in your schools that enabled you to earn more money? (You talked about this in one of your e-mails concerning making careers not jobs for your employees).

Can you give more detail on how you collect tuition/payments? I know you advocate the use of contracts (I agree) but once the contract is over can you give more information on the collection of the tuition (1st of month, how to bring it up to the student, etc.).

What are some of the do's and don'ts of the MA business that you learned from your mentor?

Can you discuss more about programming (what you offer at your school) and how you schedule these classes during the week. How long are your classes? Do you offer consecutive classes or have a small break in between them to allow the students to cool down and time for your instructors, directors to handle any business that comes up (i.e. return phone calls, schedule appointments, etc.).

Starting a school website. Do you recommend anyone?
How do you maximize the number of this and bring customers to your site?
Do you offer items for sale on your website and are you set up for such transactions?
How much should I spend for a website that offers e-commerce?

Advertising in the Yellow pages.
How big should my add be? I heard various parties say that is should be at least 1/4 of a page.
What type of text should I place in the ad? (i.e. improves confidence, weight loss, etc.).
Pictures?

Most Sincerely,

Angelo F.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

hey..those are some great questions.

Let's just look at a few;

Tuition/Billing/Contracts

You have to use contracts, period. Memberships run about $150 and up per month. When it comes to collecting students tuition, there are many companies that do it for you for a fee. Some people like the idea of doing it themselves, take advice from school owners who are doing well. Let a tuition billing company handle it. There are companies like Member Solutions, ASF, EFC, IFC etc. I think Member Solutions is the best of them all. Contact Joe Galea and let him know I recommended you, they are a great company. All the companies charge about 6-8% per month to collect tuition. Be smart. Don't focus on what you are giving up with tuition, focus on what you get.

School Website

Webmation is a great company. If you look at my website, you can see a link for them at the bottom. about $200 per month, but my website generates approx. 2-5 enrollments each month, it's definatly worth it.

Advertising

Don't waste your money with the yellow pages. Learn to VIP (Offer a free 30-day membership) to get new members. There are only a small fraction of schools in the country that use this marketing technique. It is the best. It costs nothing. I enroll 20-25 people per month in each school (40-45 per month combined) using this method. I do not use print ads anymore. Waste of money compared to VIPing. Lead boxes are good as well. Many of your new members should come from internally promoted referral programs. Birthday parties for kids are a great way to get new leads/students. 2 parties per month should bring in 40 new kids that have the potential to become your students.

That's is for now.

I'll try to answer more questions in the future. Keep em coming.

[stubbs]

I'm not sure how it works in the States, but my instructor just gets everyone to fill out a standing order form when they join. It takes a set payment from their account each month and doesn't cost anything. What do billing companies do? Why not just get your students to set up a standing order when they enrol?

If you're a new teacher, other than having confidence in yourself and your abilities and letting that show (without being ****y or arrogant), how do you reassure prospective students that what you teach is equal or better to some other guy down the road who's been teaching for 10 years? Was this ever an issue for you?
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[yutyeesam]

That VIP marketing tool sounds fantastic, would you be willing to elaborate on how you implement it? I'm guessing that it wasn't free for you, so I understand if you don't feel compelled to share it.

I'm still trying to understand the Rotating curriculum idea.
Someone explained to me that it is like the way a college runs, like English 101 in the fall , then English 102 in the spring, etc. Assuming a structure of Basics, Intermediate, and Advanced, as done with this school , my questions are:

Would all the basics cycles be at the same days/time?
for example,

Fall CLF 101 - 5:30 MWF
Winter CLF 102 - 5:30 MWF
Spring CLF 103 - 5:30 MWF

If that's the case, then would the Intermediate cycles have to be given at a separate time (or day), such as,
Fall CLF 201 - 6:30 MWF or 5:30 Tu&Th
Winter CLF 202 - 6:30 MWF or 5:30 Tu&Th
Spring CLF 203 - 6:30 MWF or 5:30 Tu&Th

and yet another separate time (or day) for the advanced cycles?

If so, is there the problem where the student says, "I'm happy I passed the Basics cycles, and I want to move on to the Intermediate, but it just doesn't work with my schedule. The time the basics cycles met were perfect for me, but how can I go through the Intermediate cycles if it's at a different time?"

Or, does the Basics cycle through, then switch to intermediate, then advanced- all at the same time schedule (eg 5:30 MWF)? If that's the case, I don't see how a beginner can just jump into the 5:30 MWF class if the Advanced cycle is going through.

My apologies, I'm just trying to figure this out!
Thank you!

[Angelo F.]

Sifu Parrella,

Thank you for your timely response. A few more questions "popped" in my head after reading your comments.

First, do you charge for promotions? I know some people think it is a bad way of handling it since it feels like you are "buying" the promotion rather than "earning" it. If you do charge for promotions, is it a one time fee or do they pay evertime they test?

One time fee being, they take the test and fail but do not need to pay again for the test again. Are these fees all included in the programs (blackbelt, kids, etc.) that you offer?

Also I assume from the "rotating curriculum" post that you test everyone on a set day during the month rather than testing individually. This probably would help with book-keeping and paperwork that needs to be handled.

As far as the VIP promotion is concerned are you referring to a "special offer" of one month free enrollment? Or am I not understanding what you stated in your previous e-mail.

I know someone who offers one week free enrollment and he is doing very well. It just adds an extra student or so in class without really any additional cost to you. I believe it also helps advertise your product by giving the student "hands on" experience without initially paying which may sway their decision to enroll.
However, do you have them sign some type of safety agreement or other "contract" in case of accidental injury or otherwise before they become a full-time student?

I really like your comments about the birthday parties for the children. That is sheer brilliance!!!!!!
However, when do you usually have those scheduled? They would have to be on off hours or days (i.e. Sunday) when the school isn't loaded with students?

Can you explain more about "lead" boxes? Is that the same as information boxes where the prospective client fills out his/her personal information on a 4x6" card and places it in the box? Where can I place these lead boxes? Can you please provide more information?

As far as the question by Stubbs concerning "how do I reassure prospective students that what you teach is better than someone else down the road who has been teaching for 10 years." I am by no means an expert but would have to say by the enthusiasm of the teacher, students and overall feel of the school a prospective student can gauge the quality of instruction to some degree. Also by having the chief instructor introduce the prospective client to other instructors and students the prospective student can get a first hand indication as to whether this is something they want to persue. But in order to experience this they have to be invited to come to visit the school. I believe it would be to difficult to convey this comfort or level of quality and experience over the phone. I maybe be wrong and open to any and all suggestions and comments.

Finally, do you offer any type of aerobic kickboxing or other type of exercise program offered to people who just want to get into shape. I believe it is a good idea and could lead to future students since the participant is now exposed to punching, kicking, etc.

Thank you for your time and lets keep this discussion going. I really think this is a great topic and all who love martial arts can learn a great deal from.

Angelo F.

P.S. Yutyeesam, good question on the clarification of the rotating curriculum.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Wow, lot's of questions again. I don't have time to address them all. Here's a thought though...


Concerning the guy who has been open for 10 years down the block:

Never worry about that guy. People aren't enrolling in a school because the teacher is the best around. Think about it. Here is a simple truth that will serve you well in the martial arts business:

"People don't care how much you know, until they know how much you care."

Provide great classes, keep your school clean (nothing on the floor at all) start and end class on time, keep your promises and be professional, personable and friendly. You'll have students practically lining up to join. I kid you not.

It's not about 'what a great martial artist you are.'

[sihing]

This is a awesome thread with tons of great information on how to promote and run a successful Martial Arts business. I work for my Sifu full time in the kwoon and with my Sihing also working F/T, we have doubled the enrollment in less than a year. I will definetly use some of these methods described to add on to that increase in students. We pride ourselves on our continuing effort to provide quality instruction in Wing Chun will running a successful business without compromising anything.

Most of the guys on the Wing Chun forum wouldn't like this type of thread since most are small time, self concerned types that only want schools big enough to supply them with sparring partners or others with Martial Arts knowledge they can add to their Wing Chun

Keep the posts coming...

James

[Knifefighter]

Learn to VIP (Offer a free 30-day membership) to get new members.

Can you elaborate on this a bit? I'm interested in hearing how this works as it almost seems counterintuitive to me... kind of like giving away the store.

[Vasquez]

And yet nobody cares about you. You have this sad pathetic movie version about how this stuff works. If your Sifu made a fortune selling opium, or was involved in organized crime, would you still find being taught for a pittance ok? Slave labor is a character test? This isn't a Jacky Chan movie, son. SHould I teach 300-400 people, make a good living all the while knowing that there might be a dozen or so in that number who want to train like I did? Or should I take a menial labor job and teach just those dozen or so for some fuedal tradition? I add great value to people's lives with my teaching, even if they don't want to be some imaginary conquistador. Now respect your betters and behave boy.

You are lucky I have this buddhism peace and detechment thing going for not to be insulted by the likes of you. My sifu would laugh at what you say hahahahaha. what kung fu do you know anyway!

[GreenCloudCLF]

For a Buddhist you seem to have no problem accruing bad Karma by insulting the martial arts and methods of others...

[Buddy]

Here is a link to the brochures of the place I used to teach. While the place is geared exclusively to qi-huggers, the brochures will give an example of how their rotating curriculum worked for adults. No need to comment on the substance, I already left.
http://www.brooklinetaichi.com/downloads/downloads.htm

And because I'm feeling expansive for Vasqey, it's Yizong Baguazhang, little ninja turtle.

[Vasquez]

Here is a link to the brochures of the place I used to teach. While the place is geared exclusively to qi-huggers, the brochures will give an example of how their rotating curriculum worked for adults. No need to comment on the substance, I already left.
http://www.brooklinetaichi.com/downloads/downloads.htm

And because I'm feeling expansive for Vasqey, it's Yizong Baguazhang, little ninja turtle.

Wow you do the Bagua. that is so cool. I like the circle walk thing and its like a dance or tai chi. It must be spiritually wholesome. I do yoga as well. We sure would have heaps to talk about.

[Angelo F.]

Sifu Parrella,

Sorry about the bombardment of questions on my last few posts. This is a very interesting topic for me and want to learn more.
Please feel free to answer any of the questions at your convenience and at your discretion.

The reason for all of my questions is that I am very interested in running a successful MA business. However don't get me wrong, in my kung fu style we have people who are very knowledgeable at marketing/sales and running a successful business as well as being awesome practitioners of the art. But I really enjoy talking with others on how they have been successful and what strategies and techniques they used to help them grow and fullfill their dreams sort to speak.

However, everyone probably can relate to what I am about to say next. I have known and still know people who read all of the books, listen to all of the tapes and go to many, many seminars on marketing, salemenship, conversational skills, etc and tell me that "I/we are going to succeed in business because I have all of this information and am working out a strategy to implement everything I learned but it will take time to do." But what I have learned is that these people never quite get to were they want to go because even though they have a lot of knowledge they never seem to take action or they are waiting for the right time to take action. However, the implementation of these ideas never seem to come about. Maybe it is because they are nervous about taking the risk, pre-occupied with other things in their life or just a lack of confidence in themselves that they "may actually succeed."
This happens not only in business but in all areas of life where a commitment needs to be made. People sometime sabotage themselves by not acting or make bad judgments that they know will not further their success and cause them to move away from their goal. Some people are just afraid of succeeding it seems because of social pressure, a feeling of alienating themselves from everyone else or because they just don't want to take on the extra responsibility. However, if you really love what you do and want to start a business I think it is important to go after the goal and fulfill that need so eventually you can use your resources in a manner that helps the greater good.

In any case, I like to learn and ask questions to people who have "been there". People who are successful in their respective fields of study and people who have have the confidence in themselves enough to take that risk and do the hard work to succeed. These are the true winners in life and are also the people who pave the way for others that follow that want to succeed and spread the joy of their knowledge and hardwork to all walks of life.
I can tell from the comments you (Sifu Parrella) and others on the forum make that there are people posting on this thread that have a very successful MA business and really are excited about helping people take those risks and seek the rewards (i.e. spreading their martial art, goodwill, feelings of security/confidence, making a good living, etc) to those of us that follow. It is a refreshing feeling to have a thread like this where people are interested in sharing information for the good of people and martial arts in general.

Like I sometimes tell people, if you want to learn how to hit a 90mph fastball don't come to me. Although I read the books, watched the videos and went to the practices. You should seek professional instruction from a person who has "been there" (i.e. a coach, "big leaguer" or former batting champ). Those are the people who not only can help but want you to succeed and will give you that something extra that I still haven't realized.

Sorry for getting off of the topic (big tangent) but I guess I wanted to explain my sudden outbursts of questions.
I apologize and will "simmer down" for a bit. I just have a lot of passion for martial arts and really want to spread my art to all people who are interested in learning it.

Angelo F.

[Monkeyboy13]

Angelo,
I know I haven't posted on this thread yet, but I don't think there's any reason for you to appologize. The only way you can learn is by asking questions. As I often tell my students, "you'll never know if you don't ask." Having said this, I hope I'm not stepping on Sifu Parella's toes. I only offer my opinion.

I too have gleaned a lot of info from this thread, but still don't understand a few things - What's a lead box? and, as someone else already asked, Could you explain the VIP program in a little more detail please? How do you approach the students to invite in their friends, etc. Perceptions being what they are, how do you not seem money grubbing to parents of the students? Do you give one free month for every person the student brings in that ends up in a contract? If this is the case, does this mean that one student (if he/she brings in 12 friends that sign up) could be studying for a year for free, or is there a limit?

Again, perceptions being what they are, the big marketers in my area are McDojos (not because they market, simply because of what they teach - or don't). How do you aggressively market without people lumping you in with these same clubs (obviously once they see what you offer, they will understand, however until they get in the door, all clubs are created equal)?

I have always been put off by the attitude that simply because you want to make money at what you do, it negates the validity of your art. (The best surgeons make the most money, yet the best martial artists are supposed to live in squalor?) However, that is a large (albeit false) viewpoint. How do you overcome?

Peace, Steve