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Thread: how would you fight these guys

  1. #61
    I'd get my friends to help

  2. #62
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    crane beak strikes makes the difference

  3. #63
    Okay, I have two ideas that I don't think anybody can really argue with.


    1) Use a weapon. If that many people are against you, I'd definitely pick up something to hit with. Anything. Especially a long metal pole of some sort or a brick.

    2) Use Dim Mak. I know some of you aren't interested in killing or posting things that could harm people, but come on, if it's your life or their's, I say their's.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamesk
    Okay, I have two ideas that I don't think anybody can really argue with.


    1) Use a weapon. If that many people are against you, I'd definitely pick up something to hit with. Anything. Especially a long metal pole of some sort or a brick.

    2) Use Dim Mak. I know some of you aren't interested in killing or posting things that could harm people, but come on, if it's your life or their's, I say their's..
    Great. Another ****ing troll comedian.

    1.4

  5. #65
    ...What are you talking about? I was just making a suggestion.

  6. #66
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    Dim Mak is a myth boyo. Some folks get mighty upset when somebody drops those words. Killing a person with your bare hands is a difficult thing to do. It requires you to have significant physical dominance. Yeah, you can choke somebody to death, you can break their neck but neither of these things are easy to do and the easier one (the choke) is very slow. Even if you could control a big guy long enough to permanently shut their breath (in which case you are probably quite skilled and quite fit) the question remains: would you have the chutzpah to watch as a person slowly suffocated in your arms. Dim Mak is a martial arts fairy story; you can't poke someone and expect them to keel over. It doesn't happen any more than flying and fireballs do.

    Now I don't think you are a troll. I think you are a kid who is new to martial arts and learning. One part of learning is the shedding of illusions. This is one you should shed.

    As for weapons; improvised weapons may work well against an untrained opponent but those guys (from some of the early posts) apparently have a reputation for scrapping. Go against a skilled fighter with a rock in your hand and he will probably just take it away from you.
    Simon McNeil
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    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  7. #67
    My friend, by all means, I assure you that I am anything but a troll. I was highly interested in this topic because it was discussing how to take down seemingly unstoppable opponents in a real life-threatening situation. I did not come here to "troll" or to get into skirmishes and flame-wars.

    I also sincerely thank you for providing the information on Dim Mak. I was misinformed, obviously, and you took the time to provide the correction.

    Also if you'd ever like to share your knowledge with me, I'd be very eager to learn your style's methods and techniques, and any training methods you may have to share. Feel free to Private Message me any time.

    Back to the subject. How would you take these fighters down, assuming that they had no martial arts skills? Just curious on how you'd approach it.

  8. #68
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    My sincere apologies if you're sincere!

    As Simon says, Dim mak is basically BS. That's not to say there haven't been people who were capable of killing someone or knocking them out using specific point strikes, but just that those individuals were very few and far between.

    I strongly doubt that most people who say they can do this have anything real to back this up. Search for LMFDC's Chan Tai San thread for some stories of real hardcore CMA fighters and his opinion on dim mak.

    As Simon says, the reason is control. In the heat of a fight, you don't have time or the opportunity to control most normal size single opponents, let alone a group of big mofos.

    A lot of combinations in a lot of styles will 'accidentally' hit various key nerve points, and/or knock out points. But though they may have been designed to do that, it's rather like the old one-two in boxing... sure one or two punches will sometimes knock someone out, but the boxer is just aiming combos at a general area: if he rings bells that's a bonus. In wing chun (my primary stand-up style) we work some san sik, which are two-person drills working moves from the forms in combination against a semi-resistant partner, and then we take it up to chi sao, and then sparring, and at each level of resistance there is less and less chance that your combo will pay off with a knock-out or fight stopper...

    Of course that is what we are aiming for, or at least we are trying to maximise the percentage chance of pulling it off, but there are no certainties in a fight.

    So, as I said, sorry if I was a bit harsh, but a lot of people come on the board saying things that they sound like they've got from the movies, and speaking from someone who has literally been kicked unconscious in the street, who has stayed and fought with varying levels of success, who has pulled people apart and faced people with knives, bottles, glasses, stools, pool cues etc, and who has run away many times, if you don't lose that attitude quickly you're going to get ****ed over really quickly if you ever do get into a real situation.

    So what would I do?
    First as several people have said is; don't be there in the first place. Don't be in theat situation. For most people there is no reason to reach that level of danger.

    Second: run. If you don't have anyone around there who's gonna get caught and hurt, run!

    Third: There is nothing at all good about multiple attackers. They will probably win. However, a few things hold true: try to keep a wall or something behind you, and try not to get too close to it; try to pick on the biggest, if he goes down the others may back off... or depending on the situation, go for the smallest, the weakest, or the one who looks like he can run fastest, and try and take them out with easy long-range low shots (like attacking the knee), simple low high combos, but importantly don't hang about analysing the results, just a couple of blasts, push him out the way and run like the clappers; of course if you are lucky enough to be near a builders' yard and can pick up a nice smooth strong piece of pipe do so, but again, in reality, you go down to pick something up and you're likely to get boot pie...

    If you want combo ideas, as I said, low high usually works well. High (head shots etc) usually need a shorter range, so high low doesn't work so well. Your style (shotokan I'm guessing by your tag) should be able to give you enough ideas, but the tip is, forget specifics and go for general zones. If you are in close and in trouble, I like headbutts. They're hard, heavy, they hurt, and they usually surprise people.

  9. #69
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    It's unsurprising that in general I agree with Mat's assessment. Both of us have a background in WC.

    However I do have a few other points to add.

    1: (AND I SAY THIS FROM EXPERIENCE) Even if you can take a punch. Even if you are tough enough to avoid injury and to shrug off pain when a big slugger lands a bomb on you a big hit can still knock you off your feet. When fighting a group the very last place you want to be is on the ground. So don't get hit if you can avoid it.

    2: 9 times out of 10, when facing a larger opponent, close range is your friend. The tenth time you face a freak like me who enjoys smashing things with elbow, knee and forehead and who likes Shuai Jiao. Don't go for the long range techniques. Bridge fast and go into very close range as fast as you can. Keeping with the low-high suggestions of Mat knee to the balls followed immediately by headbutt to the nose may serve you well. It's quick, unexpected and vicious. Remember to keep the heat on as you don't want to let a bigger opponent, especially one with backup, take the initiative.

    3: I don't generally run away from trouble. Quite frankly the chances are that trouble runs faster than I do. So I developed another strategy. It's called being friendly. You wouldn't believe how many times polite self confidence has averted a threat situation for me. The very best fight is the one that does not happen. Big thugs are not generally mad-dogs who will kill anyone they see just for ****s and giggles. They are, however, people who enjoy being an intimidator while often simultaneously despising "weakness". Being able to be friendly and relaxed around them can lead you to having a posse to back YOU up as opposed to an enemy who packs heat. Which would you prefer?
    Simon McNeil
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    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  10. #70
    I really don't think that there is anybody that can provide much better advice seeing as you and Mat have covered just about every possible angle of this situation! I'll take that to heart.

    I've also heard it's best to stay out of a straight line between attackers. For instance, if two guys are on either side of you, try to get yourself out of that position and in a position where they are both in front of you.

    Does this make sense? I heard this from a friend of mine in Ishinryu Karate. I probably didn't word it as good as he could though.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SimonM
    1:
    Yep.
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonM
    2: 9 times out of 10, when facing a larger opponent, close range is your friend... Bridge fast and go into very close range as fast as you can.
    True. I was recommending the low long range shot as the quickest way to make contact and get the bridge. You don't want to try to keep a bigger guy at long range, cos they'll have the reach advantage. Tho at the same time low kicks should work well whether you're trying to establish a connection or just to shock attack (although close range is your friend, I'm still thinking it's better to run away), because in my experience (although I'M not saying all big guys are like this) most big guys are not so good at quickly shifting their weight to avoid low kicks.
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonM
    3: I don't generally run away from trouble. Quite frankly the chances are that trouble runs faster than I do.
    I was my school champ at 100, 200, 400 and 800 metres, and can push out a good 1500 and 10000 too! They better not have a car!
    Quote Originally Posted by SimonM
    So I developed another strategy. It's called being friendly.
    Sure. And that's back to my first point: don't be there... if you're there physically, the politeness and humour can get you out of their 'bad place'! Exceot when they're on smack, then they'll just roll over you, or on crack, when they'll laugh with you, then roll over you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Yamesk
    I've also heard it's best to stay out of a straight line between attackers. For instance, if two guys are on either side of you, try to get yourself out of that position and in a position where they are both in front of you
    Of course. If you get attacked by movie villains they'll line up for you, so you can hit them one after another, and wait till your ready! But on serious note, if you do get the movie position of one of them being too close to another, sometimes it doesn't need a fancy combo to clear some space: just a quick shove.

  12. #72
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    I suddenly have an image of the multi-fight between the kicks master and the axe gang from Kung Fu Hustle...

    Mat is right about the "don't be there" part. I've found that you often have to go looking for trouble if you want to find it. If you don't want trouble it's not usually a problem.

    I do like to lead in with a low roundhouse when I want to close the gap. It will draw the opponent's attention down and open up their face a bit and if you get lucky you can do some harm to their knee; an added bonus.
    Simon McNeil
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    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  13. #73
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    strategies

    In my opinion, this is what differentiates just a hard azz fighter to a true warrior.

    No matter how good a fighter you are, you can only defeat someone who is weaker, slower, or less skillful than yourself...

    But if one studies and apply well all the strategies you learn from Martial Arts and texts like Sun's Art of War, writings by Yagyu Munenori, I-Ching then although you may not be as good physically as a fighter, you may still get out alive. May be you bluff your way out, completely turn your enemy into your buddy, or just cheat a little. In the bigger scheme of things you are still a winner. This, in my opinion, is the mark of a true warrior.

    Even the great Miyamoto Musashi did not fight fair with all his fights...

    Cheers,
    John
    Dr. J Fung
    www.kulowingchun.com

    "打得好就詠春,打得唔好就dum春"

  14. #74
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    Honestly this is on topic...

    Read the Odyssey.

    Odyssius is DA MAN. There is a reason he got home from Troy when Achilles did not. There is a reason why he got his wife back when Agamemnon got killed by his.
    Simon McNeil
    ___________________________________________

    Be on the lookout for the Black Trillium, a post-apocalyptic wuxia novel released by Brain Lag Publishing available in all major online booksellers now.
    Visit me at Simon McNeil - the Blog for thoughts on books and stuff.

  15. #75
    I'm not sure I agree that a choke is slow. A good choke puts you out in a few seconds and will kill you in less than 20 if it's done hard.

    A windpipe choke will kill you the moment it's applied, technically. If your windpipe is crushed and you're then pushed down and left for dead, what exactly are you going to do? Hope you have a bic pen and a scalpel handy.

    As far as taking on any one of those brutes? I would avoid them in the first place. If I had to fight them I would want to run them all over with my car first, use an automatic weapon if a car was unavailable, or stab their temples, carotid or femoral arteries with a large tactical knife (something like a hissatsu knife) in a first strike type situation.

    If you are in a fight with guys like that and they are packing guns, you my friend are an idiot for being anywhere near there, and you'd better be ready to let the bodies hit the floor.

    If you have any fantasy of taking on 6 guys of that size all by yourself, forget it unless you have a big fast gun and you open fire first. There's no chance in hell you can ever take them all out unless they are separated and you strike first, i.e. walk up behind and stab their neck. But that's just murder not self defence.

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