Tuition/contracts/fees - need advice

[ElectricVersion]

I'm new to Kung-fu, only been studying for about a month, maybe even a little less. There was only one Kung-fu place i knew of in my area so i did no shopping around at first. Let me tell you what the deal is with rates and costs and contracts there. i feel it may be a bit too much...

when i first went in, tried it out for a class or two, then signed up... $100 enrollment fee, and a 6 month contract at $100 a month, and a free uniform. i wanted to commit at least 6 months to it, so i went for it. why not.

so after a few weeks, i am selected for the "advanced program". students that are selected for this show hard work, determination, focus, etc. i'm sure everyone gets selected at some point. students get an hour class instead of the 30 minute class basic students get. the last half hour is spent doing forms and more applied stuff, whereas the first half hour is exercise, practicing blocks, stances, punches and basic elements.

for this advanced program... you sign another contract... this time $400 enrollment fee, and the tuition jumps to $150 a month. contract for 36 months. the idea is to set your Black Sash goal for 3 yrs and reach it with this program. they don't "promise" you the black sash, but they basically tell you they believe you can do it. they have no doubt.. etc. you know the deal.

belt tests also cost money on top of all that.

they have special programs they do from time to time, like 5 animal forms and such, and that's even more money. just seems like it adds up and adds up. money pit.

i had a good vibe at first at the school, but since i've learned more about it and seen more of the business end of it, i don't feel so great about it anymore.

how does this sound to all of you. how does it compare to how your school does things? does it seem excessive? any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[anton]

IN my books a class should last around 2 hours (especially for so-called "advanced" students). OK maybe beginners could get some benefit from a 1 hour class, but 30 mins is ridiculous. Also the prices they're charging sound quite high. I'm afraid I get the feeling you're being scammed mate. Just out of curiosity what is the name of the system they claim to teach?

[ElectricVersion]

Shaolin Long Fist is the style that they told me they teach.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Actually, everything that you mentioned in your post seems right on track. The Tuition you mentioned is right on track with industry averages (I know, because I teach martial arts schools how to become more professional).

As far as setting a goal for Black Belt/Sash within a few weeks? That is a responsible thing that your instructor did for you. Here is a stat: For everyday that a student in college attends class without selecting a major, he/she exponentally increases their chances of dropping out and quitting school. Pretty powerful, huh?

Get ready though, there are lots of schools that will tell you that classes should be $75 per month and your classes should be 2 hours long. I could post tons of info and stats to support shorter classes and higher tuition. But I think you get the idea. They don't tell you that their schools might be sub-standard or lacking a good 'cleaning' or they may have unprofessional business practices. Remember the old saying: "You get what you pay for." If a school only charges a little, it may be that they feel that their lessons are only worth a little. If you are a school owner that charges a little (less than $100 per month) then ask yourself the question, "are my lessons worth more or less than what I'm charging?" If you think they are worth less,....close your school now and don't look back. If you think they are worth more, than by all means CHARGE MORE. If you don't know how to do that or you need advice about your business, PM me. And leave an email address as well.

Bottom line is: Do you like your training? Do you feel like you are paying a fair price? Are you focused on your goal? If so, good. Keep on moving forward. If not, consider speaking to your instructor BEFORE you intend on quitting.

[Mr Punch]

They'd better be good, or you're really get shafted there pal.

With all due respect to Mike Parella who from his posting and his background seems like a straight-up geezer, I have to completely disagree, simply because, although his caveat that you get what you pay for is true, the business model that you described is little short of perfect for a McKwoon.

My advice: tell them you'd like to think about it for a wee while (tell them you're not sure you can give them the commitment they would need) and check out any other local schools. You said there were no more kungfu schools, so try karate, boxing anything.

Now, as a beginner, you're not going to know what's good and what's not, or even what's a good way of teaching and what's not, but it should help you to get a feel for it.

How many classes a week (at 30 mins each!) did you take before they decided on this special programme? And would the first $100 a month and $100 enrolment go towards the $150/mth and $400 enrolment? If the contracts run concurrently, you would then have paid $500 enrolment and $250/mth...?

Don't know about real pros like Mike Parella, but $100/mth is pretty standard across the board for quality from what I've heard.

[Mr Punch]

I could post tons of info and stats to support shorter classes and higher tuition. ...

Cool. Can we see a couple please? Especially the shorter classes bit. Frankly, I think a 30-minute class is bull****, but I'm willing to be persuaded.

[Lama Pai Sifu]

By the way, what is the name of your instructor? Just curious..and what state is that, and what is the school name/website?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

We don't do a 30 minute class for adults. I think that is too short as well. We do one for kids though. Once they graduate to a different program the kids go to 45 minutes. The adults can go to 1 hour.

[Mr Punch]

An hour is OK, but even that seems a little short.

When I was studying for teaching, most studies showed an hour and a half was the optimum learning time for most people, after that you start to switch off. That was classroom teaching though. Maybe it's different for physical skills, but I would think that it would be longer, as you would need a while for the theory (ie the forms) then a different mental ability for application (drills and sparring).

Do you have any info on studies on class-length relating to concentration span, or were your statements based solely on business models?

[bigdoing]

100.00 per month. No belts. No contracts. If you want to buy a uniform its your choice (eveybody does). Tshirt 15.00 pants 15.00.

School is M-Thrs 3:30-9pm. Come as long as you want. Sat 9:30-5pm come as long as you want.

Its great, of course my Sifu is old school chinese, so that style of training doest not attract alot of people.

Most people need to be motivated in a group situation and pushed by competion to suceed in their goals, some will find a small school with a few students and have to work hard with out much puch from others, the bottom line is do you feel good after class?

If you want to run a school that produces income, then check lama pai sifus advice.

For me, when its time to open a school, thats the model to follow, but as far as me and training, sheet, there was a time I was able to go five days a week for a year and stay four to five hours a day for 100.00 and quality instruction.

[ElectricVersion]

i found another kung-fu place not too far from me in new jersey...

www.peterkwokskungfuacademy.com tell me what you think.

$95 a month, no contracts, hour and a half classes, and the workout space looks really big, nice & spacious.

[Mr Punch]

No evidence on that site that they're teaching a martial art. Depends what you want to learn for.

If you wanna be a badass I wouldn't go there. If you wanna pick up old women, may be the place for you!

[SevenStar]

first, 3o mins is WAY too short. Especially for all of the money you are paying. Second, they are taking a lot of cash from you. I'd be leary... very leary.

[mantis108]

30 mins too short you think? No, not if you are doing Taebo or cardio kickboxing. LOL....

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Rokto_Obotar]

Southern arts northern arts definitly require hours not minutes. I just joined my school I go from 5-6 every day and 7-8 mon wed n fri for external martial arts and 7-8 tues n thurs for internal. I go weakends from 9-12 for mixed training usualy 9-10 for internal 10-12 for external. Sundays they have all sorts of different things. At my school you can sign up for 8hours a week external 8 hours a week internal or 12hours a week mixed. you have 30minutee clases paying 100$ a month? i pay 100$ a month and i get 48hours of training monthly.! (at home well lets just say im really into martial arts !). My advice find another school that you get at least an hour.

today im going from 7-9 insted of 5-8.