First 'real' BJJ class today

[Nick Forrer]

Re spider guard on the street

Two main problems that I see:

1) generally need sleeve control - hard to play this with no gi. Attacker may be wearing t shirt for eg. You can use wrist control but extending leg in his bicep/hip can break your own grip.

2) Exposure of groin to knees/stomps.

Pace KF, FD and others open guard with lots of kicking/offbalancing is best for street IMO. Personally Not too keen on subs from bottom - chance of being slammed/stacked. And as noted always better to play top game but - you may not have that choice............

[mantis108]

Great points. I appreciate it. But then wouldn't the same groin shot arguement can go for the guard position in general though? I am not trolling. I am just wondering what would your explanation/instruction "pitch" be for the guard on the street. Is the remedy the same as be quick and get up also?

Anyone can chime in please.

Thanks

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Merryprankster]

I highly favor the open guard in my BJJ practice. I think at one point you could probably have said I was an "open guard guy"

Some thoughts.

Many opponents wear clothes.

Spider guard DOES work, but the pace is much faster.

You cannot "hang out."

The last point is where people usually make their mistake. Because of the gi, they are used to "hanging out," in open guard positions, setting things up carefully, then doing whatever it is they are going to do.

I sweep constantly from open guard without a gi, but you have to be willing to open up and go for things....and you have to be willing to use the offbalancing created by your sweep attempt to come to your feet or otherwise attack.

[Judge Pen]

Ok, I'm going to show my ignorance of the ground game here. Could someone describe a sweep as it relates to the ground or bjj? I know what they are in relation to the stand-up game, but I'm having difficulty visualizing this technique in the context of the ground game.

[Merryprankster]

I know what they are in relation to the stand-up game, but I'm having difficulty visualizing this technique in the context of the ground game.

It's an offensive move from the fellow on his back. He puts the OTHER guy on his back while coming up on top.

There are many.

re: Groin shots.

The key in open guard is to offbalance the opponent. A person constantly trying to catch their balance, or consistently regain posture is unable to launch an effective attack.

In closed guard, the lack of space prevents them. In the event that the person in guard gets posture, you offbalance and break their posture.

Groin shots become hard under these circumstances. In fact, any shot becomes hard under these circumstances.

Ground n Pound from inside the guard is a popular strategy, but it is an acquired skill. You must learn to defend submission attempts and maintain a solid base. No wonder then, that it was popularized by ex wrestlers - good bases already...

[Reggie1]

From my understanding, ground game sweeping is to take yourself from a neutral position to an advantageous position or an disadvantageous position to a neutral/advantageous position.

For example, if I'm on my back and you're in my guard (neutral), I would try and sweep you over on your back with me on top of you in the mount (advantage: me)

[David Jamieson]

I, after a long time in training martial arts have been finally working on the ground game more as of late.

It is only quite recently I have learned to relax more and stop using so much energy and wasting it.

It's good sh1t and definitely compliments anyones game.

standup/clinch/ground know a little about them all, be proficient in one at least.
Otherwise, well, in my opinion, your martial art sucks.

[mantis108]

I think you pretty much answered my question. I believe the "hangout" bit is dead on. Thanks for sharing the tips, great stuff.

I also wanted to thank others that responded to my posts. Thanks guys.

Warm regards

Mantis108

[ewallace]

Infidel!!!

[BM2]

Ok, I'm going to show my ignorance of the ground game here. Could someone describe a sweep as it relates to the ground or bjj? I know what they are in relation to the stand-up game, but I'm having difficulty visualizing this technique in the context of the ground game.

http://www.bjj.org/techniques/

I think onthemat.com may also have some techniques.

[Lowlynobody]

Just out of curiosity a question for those in the know - what techniques/skills would a BJJ person after 6 months of training have under his/her belt?

By under their belt I mean able to pull off on others when they roll.


Cheers!

[Merryprankster]

Assuming that the person is training under a reasonably competant person, and is reasonably competant themselves, and trains reasonably hard and regularly, I would expect a 6-month student to be able to do:

Armbar, triangle and cross-choke from the guard
Scissor Sweep and probably hip bump sweep
Cross Choke, bent armlock and straight armbar from the mount
Double leg (baiana version)
Rear naked choke
an attack of some kind from from knee on belly

Elbow and knee escape
Upa escape

One or two basic guard passes, like a double underhooks pass or a knee over pass.

Basic guard break.

Principles of posture control.

Maybe an ankle lock depending on where they train.

Knowledge of the basic positions. (mount, side control, knee on belly, guard, open guard, etc.)

Basic grip breaks and how to stand up properly.

I would not expect them to secure locks or moves in transition yet and I wouldn't expect these things to be perfect. I would expect them to be able to get them on somebody of equal or lesser ability.

Truth is, you could take what I just listed all the way to black belt and win the worlds.

[MasterKiller]

Assuming that the person is training under a reasonably competant person, and is reasonably competant themselves, and trains reasonably hard and regularly, I would expect a 6-month student to be able to do:

Armbar, triangle and cross-choke from the guard
Scissor Sweep and probably hip bump sweep
Cross Choke, bent armlock and straight armbar from the mount
Double leg (baiana version)
Rear naked choke
an attack of some kind from from knee on belly

Elbow and knee escape
Upa escape

One or two basic guard passes, like a double underhooks pass or a knee over pass.

Basic guard break.

Principles of posture control.

Maybe an ankle lock depending on where they train.

Knowledge of the basic positions. (mount, side control, knee on belly, guard, open guard, etc.)

Basic grip breaks and how to stand up properly.

I would not expect them to secure locks or moves in transition yet and I wouldn't expect these things to be perfect. I would expect them to be able to get them on somebody of equal or lesser ability.

Truth is, you could take what I just listed all the way to black belt and win the worlds.

I'm 4 months into no-gi MMA training, and that pretty much sums up what I have on the ground, except I know a few more ankle locks/heel hooks variations, omo palata (sp?), some escapes from the 'turtling' position, butterfly guard/half buttefly guard sweeps, and because it's MMA, a whole schlew of single-leg/double-leg takedowns and counters...