Question for Alquedia

[Royal Dragon]

What exactly do you want, and hope to accomplish by blowing yourself up in a subway?

For the rest of us, how do we contact Alquedia and ask this question? I really want to know what is motivateing them. WHY so much hatred, and WHY so much raw brutality?

[Samurai Jack]

They feel they're fighting a war. For better or worse they could not even hope to match the nations they are making war against on a conventional battlefield. Thus, they do what they can to disrupt and terrify these nations by sacrificing themselves for thier ideals. The reason? They feel oppressed. They feel threatened. They believe that we are wrong, and that thier cause is rightous.

Thier demands?

1. They want Israel out of Palestine.

2. They want the west to stop meddling with the middle-east.

3. They want to establish an Islamic Theocracy worldwide.

4. They want the western economy to collapse.

5. They want the middle-eastern economy to dominate.

[Royal Dragon]

Thier demands?

1. They want Israel out of Palestine. -- This is not possible, too many people there. AND blowing up a subway in London won't help the situation.

2. They want the west to stop meddling with the middle-east. -- Valid point, but still how does blowing your self up on foreinge soil help this?

3. They want to establish an Islamic Theocracy worldwide. -- Again, self destruction does not a world power make.

4. They want the western economy to collapse. -- They'd need to do alot more than demolish a subway for this.

5. They want the middle-eastern economy to dominate. -- They barely have one, they don't know HOW to have an economy. Also, if they blow themselves up, who will be there to run thier economy?

[WinterPalm]

Think about it this way.
The Iraqis do not know what the hell america wants by coming there and blowing stuff up. That is all they see. A market or hotel, or meeting spot or church or whatever is blown up by missiles. They are probably asking the same questions: What does America want??? Only those within the decision making process or maybe a bit more understand that. To the rest of us, we sit amongst the carnage and death that violence and war will always bring. Both sides fight ideologies or concepts and those are things that cannot be blown into submission.

[David Jamieson]

Think about it this way.
The Iraqis do not know what the hell america wants by coming there and blowing stuff up. That is all they see. A market or hotel, or meeting spot or church or whatever is blown up by missiles. They are probably asking the same questions: What does America want??? Only those within the decision making process or maybe a bit more understand that. To the rest of us, we sit amongst the carnage and death that violence and war will always bring. Both sides fight ideologies or concepts and those are things that cannot be blown into submission.

While there appears to be an organization called Al Qaida in Iraq, the iraqis are not Al Qaida.

The insurgance in Iraq is sunni led by all accounts and the insurgency is primarily made up of post war mercs from other countries as well as loyalists from Saddams regime who still have access to manpower and weapons of that regime.

A great deal of recruits for Al Qaida in the west are young and restless people who are easily led into carying out these acts while their directors remain comfortable in their hideaways.

acts of cowardice in direction, acts of stupidty on the misplaced passions of the Al Qaida recruits.

It will continue to get greyer and greyer and greyer and the reasons for terrorist actions will bounce all over the place from those listed above to a variety of other reasons.

Chaos is the only result of this.

[octagonal raven]

[Merryprankster]

The Mid East problem has nothing to do with the oil. Nothing at all). Yeah, right.

I didn't say this. Perhaps you got it from somebody else on this thread?

(these are the sort of cognitive leaps to which I am referring...)

[Ultimatewingchun]

Then let me restate my position about the oil and you can comment if you wish:

1) If there was no American (and Western) interest in Mid East Oil - we wouldn't have any soldiers there.

2) Put another way: It's 80% desert over there - so would we give a rat's a55 about what goes on there if it weren't for the oil under those sands?

3) The fact that there are Western soldiers in those countries is precisely the "rationale" that Bin Laden uses for calling for a jihad against the West.

4) And the fact that we help prop up regimes that will sell us the oil, and who are so socially and economically stratified that the end result is not good for the great majority of their citizens - only antagonizes the jihadists even further.

NOW ADD THE FOLLOWING TO THE MIX:

5) Our seemingly unconditional support for Israel's land grab and subsequent suppression of the Palestinian's (we were an honest broker once or twice - under Carter and to a lessor extent under Clinton) - but those moments were very brief; and aside from that, both of those U.S. presidents had a very weak foreign policy record which failed in the Iran hostage crisis and when Clinton had the chance to get Bin Laden - for he wouldn't pull the necessary trigger.

6) The madness of the Fundamentalists and Jihadists who try to brainwash their ignorant followers into thinking that eternal paradise awaits them if they commit mass murder of both men, women, and children while committing suicide...

7) The tribalism and primitive thinking of so much of the Arab Islamic world in general in recent centuries...as they want to return to a view of the world that has no tolerance for any religious beliefs and customs other than their own rigid and oppressive tyranny.

8) The poverty that makes the masses ripe for dictators and tyrants.

9) The sense of psychological humiliation that they feel when comparing their material way of life with that of the West.

10) The sense of psychological humiliation they feel at being powerless in the face of oppressive and corrupt regimes, and foreign domination and control.

BUT IF IT WEREN'T FOR OUR INTEREST IN THEIR OIL...we could be an active catalyst in their evolutionary advance without making ourselves a target for the power hungry and vicious Imam's and self proclaimed Moslem saviors (ie.- Bin Laden).

...........................


And I won't even go into (for now) all the multitude of other reasons why we should give up our dependence on fossil fuels in the first place.

[Royal Dragon]

If it' all about Oil, why haven't Gass prices gone down?

[ZIM]

7) The tribalism and primitive thinking of so much of the Arab Islamic world in general in recent centuries...as they want to return to a view of the world that has no tolerance for any religious beliefs and customs other than their own rigid and oppressive tyranny.

8) The poverty that makes the masses ripe for dictators and tyrants.

9) The sense of psychological humiliation that they feel when comparing their material way of life with that of the West.

10) The sense of psychological humiliation they feel at being powerless in the face of oppressive and corrupt regimes, and foreign domination and control.

Their poverty is their own fault. Had Jewish-Arab cooperation rather than stultifying, Jew-hating war been possible from the start, and had money from oil been creatively invested in education, technology, industry, and social services, the Middle East would now be by far the richest portion of the earth’s surface. This has been one of history’s greatest lost opportunities.

[David Jamieson]

I think Gwyn Dyer had a great article about this in todays T.O Star in regards to cause and effect. Don't kid yourself into thinking that the coalition of the so called willing is blameless in what is happening in the world right now.