Is the Choy Lay Fut in the Leo Fong Choy Lay Fut Book Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut or Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut ? The Stances in the book look higher than say in Doc Fai Wongs Choy Lay Fut Book .
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Is the Choy Lay Fut in the Leo Fong Choy Lay Fut Book Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut or Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut ? The Stances in the book look higher than say in Doc Fai Wongs Choy Lay Fut Book .
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And is the Cheung Kune form in the Leo Fong Choy Lay Fut Book Hung Sing Choy Lay Fut form or a Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut Form ?
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
Leo Fong was a student of Professor Lau Bun of the fut san hung sing kwoon lineage. and the Cheung Kuen that he does is of the same lineage although his movements a little strange. and i am directly from this branch so i should know.
The one thing that doc fai had for a while was a noticeable Lau Bun horse stance, but i don't know about that as of late.
hskwarrior
Sand Dancer
Hskwarrior,
could you elaborate on what the difference is between a Lau Bun horse stance and another branches version.
A wise man knows, that to know is to know that to know is not to know
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
Chaz,
The Lau Bun Lineage has a very indentifiable horse stance. We call the Sei Ping ma "general horse" and that is the one that is very distinct. other schools such as the lee koon hung branch as well as the Buk sing branches use pretty wide horses- a good distance out from the width of the shoulders.
in our branch, the sei ping ma is just inches wider than the shoulders, and the tail bone is level with the knee's. the shape of the others sei ping ma forms more of a rectangle while ours is more square-ish. it is better if you were to see what i am talking about.
I'll try to explain it with this story.......i was in Oakland where i teach sometimes on the weekend, and i notice two people at different times practicing a choy lee fut set. i didn't recognize the set but their horses completely stood out for me.
each separate time i asked each one where they learned Lau Bun's Choy Lee Fut from. Both of them were shocked because the form they were practicing was a chan family form and wanted to know how i knew they learned Lau Buns CLf.
I told them that i could easily tell they learned our stuff by the sei ping ma they were using. they couldn't believe it was that noticeable.
in our branch our sei ping ma is mid-way (length-wise) takes less effort to maneuver with. you have more ground to cover when retreating, and don't move as quickly if your horse is long.
Now, i am not saying that a long horse is wrong, it's just not what we do in the lau bun Lineage. We personally feel that the mid-length sei ping ma is much more sturdier than a long one, and you can move relatively quicker as well. at our branch everything we practice is for complete practicality for self defense on the street if needed.
if you have the magazine (kung fu tai chi) my sifu has an article in, you will see the horse my sifu and Sigung Jew Leong are using. i hope this answers your questions.
Frank
Sand Dancer
Thanks for the answer it was much appreciated
Ian
A wise man knows, that to know is to know that to know is not to know
When I was watching a Doc Fai Wong Video I noticed that he turned the feet out, then in, then out, then in to get into Sei Ping Mah.Originally Posted by hskwarrior
I thought this was odd because we do the exact opposite feet in, out, in, then out.
If this method of getting into Sei Ping Mah is from Lau Bun then it would make sense why the stance is not as wide.
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
I have never seen in any of the Lau Bun forms the opening you are talking about fu pow, but i know of what you're talking about if starting out in a standing postion and we were going to practice jot ma.
Yea, its as you said, for us we start feet together, the spread the toes out then the heels, you do this twice to get the right width of our horse.
in Fut San's original Cheung Kuen they do the same as us. only two openings. this mid-way sei ping ma is a biatch to practice because your legs are screaming all the time.
see, our kneeling horse is alot different than yours as well. i have seen your guy's bent knee from the knee down towards the foot completely flat on the ground while ours resembles more of a Football players 3 point stance without the hand touching the floor. another killer horse stance to practice.
in your sei ping ma don't you guys open at least 3 times?
frank
CLF Yut Gar
In sup gee kow da kuen and ping chan kuen there is a section that opens from the feet together and its at least 3 openings. I kind of do 3 1/2 but I like the stance somewhat wide when I practice. The narrower horse stance is definately a plus for actual fighting due to the mobility benefit.
Peace.
周洪龍 金山鴻勝武舘 - 鴻勝佛家正宗
where have you been clfnole, u've been pretty quiet around here lately.
frank
CLF Yut Gar
I have been kind of busy lately. I have been checking the posts but overall I have been lying low. My boy Joe told you and him had a good time in Texas.
Frank, I think you're referring to the LKH way of doing it. Mak Sifu does more like the Hung Gar style with only the ball of the foot touching the ground and it is more square. Both ways have there advantages and disadvantages. The LKH version is more stable from the front. The Hung Gar way is more stable from the side.
Yeah...like this....feet together.....1) toes point in > 2) toes point out > 3) toes point in > 4) toes point forward. So it has 4 levels to get into it....hence, the name Sei Ping Mah..."four level horse." I thought that was pretty cool when I figured that out....
in your sei ping ma don't you guys open at least 3 times?
frank
Also, Li Siu Hung and John Wai's (ie Florida) students do their stances really low and wide compared to our school. So don't take one school in particular as representative of the whole branch.
CLF Yut Gar
Herein lies the evolution of Sifu's teaching. From what I have observed over the years, the earlier students tended to have slightly shorter movements and higher stances. As years progress slightly more extension and lower stances could be observed.
This is kind of a general statement regarding the stances as there are always some that prefer high and others low but in general the stances lowered over time.
For those of us out there who have been teaching for some time look at your own kung fu I'll bet it has evolved over the past 5 years or so and you teach differently than in the past. I know Joe will agree with me on this one becuase we always talk about it when we look at our old tapes.
Peace.
Last edited by CLFNole; 07-28-2005 at 12:56 PM.
I wonder if this is a function of more form and exhibition/competition over the years. It seems like when forms are used primarily for exhibition the tendency is to go lower and with more extension. On the extreme end of this is Wushu, a purely exhibitive art, where things are so low and extended as to be completely impractical.
Good point.For those of us out there who have been teaching for some time look at your own kung fu I'll bet it has evolved over the past 5 years or so and you teach differently than in the past. I know Joe will agree with me on this one becuase we always talk about it when we look at our old tapes.
Peace.
Glorified TCMAist
From the little I have learned about Buck Sing CLF, Tarm Sam's horse was lower, wider and his strikes more extended, purely for fighting, never for exhibition.
The stance allowed tremendous reach,* while still maintaining the ability to recover with speed and balance. If your stance is too narrow, and you extend into the strike, you lose your power base, and your recovery capabilities. One would think that you would be limiting your footwork and mobility, but from what I have seen, this is not true. In Karate, "Lil K.A." aka Kevin Thompson fought from low, wide stances and was very quick, agile and explosive. He was also nicknamed "The Mongoose" for just these abilities. It's all in how you train. I think in CLF, form follows function. Most CLF guys I know are fighters first, performers, second.
*Sifu Dave Lacey once demonstrated this by nailing me with a chop choy from six feet away. DF does this like he's tying his shoes. I guess it's one of those Buck Sing "trademarks"
**I am not speaking on behalf of BSCLF, only about what little was shared with me, due to the generosity of good people, like DF and Sifu Lacey
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