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Thread: the 3 level models

  1. #1

    the 3 level models

    Just my sharing.


    in the recent months, I brought up my 3 levels model. This 3 level model is means to serve as a GPS to give direction and depth.

    Here I state the 3 level models again.

    1, structure level, mixing level, external shape level, geometry shape level; This is the level where it is equavalent to the Atomic molecule level as in physics.

    One studied and learn different Alignement and combination of Atoms. In WCK, this is the level of those Triangle shape or the Tan Da combination.... Bai Jong


    Sticking straight and rigidly to the Program "what to do, how to do this and that" is the indication of this level.


    2, the Sub atomic level, the subtle level, the vectors components level; this is the level where one figure out what is within the Atom. How is it function. How electron spin around neucler, how proton behave, as equavelent as in physics.

    In WCK, this is the level where one KNOWs the force or momentum. This is the level where one sees the nature of the force via its components vectors for every single movement at every instance, with an AWARENESS training/tools Such as the 6 vector force of the resultant. and because of this understanding, one can have a level of better management over the structure level. This level is the True entrance into dynamic as for the structure level is mostly a static or pseudo dynamic where it cannot last long at functioning. IE one can Bai Jong, but how long that Bai Jong last after the first second of the contact? certainly a Bai Jong might/will have some advantage over the structure level or atomic molecule level person. But a stractic or pseudo dynamic level person cannot sustain after motion carried into the real dynamic domain. This level will be the begining of knowing Zhen Qi.

    Only until this second level one is capable to understand What internal means.


    Be able to deal with vast different way of incoming force is the sign of this level.




    3, The Wave level, This level brings one into the riding the Wave level. in this level, one is similar to the wave surfer, one surf the wave, due to one knows clearly the natural of the wave. This is a level deep over the sub-atomic level or the force vector level because force vector level is still rigid compare with the wave level where the "I " seperate the "force into force vectors" and manupulate them... becomes "this is the Nature of the Wave, riding it to accomplished the mission without any artificial demanding" thus, one can use anything or any shape of wave appeared.
    To enter this level, Sleep Walking states is a must because the artificial /habitual/ programed memoried /"right -wrong" in mind body, has to go. it only leaves with AWARENESS, Nature in term of Mind/body/breathing. See, artifical/habitual/programed memoried are equavelent to Weight. the more the Weight the less flexible one is. The less one can change fast. Zihen Qi is known well in these level for Zhen Qi is a part of nature.

    No more Fear but just dealing with or riding the wave as a Sleep-Walker is the signiture of this level.


    As an example, YJKUM itself has these 3 level of attaiment. Keng Geng can only be understood after second level because there is the level one learn about the nature of force. in order to have a natural Keng Geng, one has to be in the 3rd level.

    Using structure to mimic Keng geng or stressing pushing the hip....etc are great amplification of power, however, that is still not keng geng or short power of the WCK. Why so? because one needs a Structural pre-condition to do that push in the hip...etc. what if one is in the condition of having no chance to set up these? Thus, demonstration type of short power cannot be used in the dynamic flow situtation.

    AWARENESS is the key to all of the levels, eventhough each levels focus on different areas.


    So, finally, with the 3 levels or the equavalent message or catagory, one can have a sense of direction of where is one heading to. Science of Scientific has no used without knowing the levels for it is similar to one can get the best voltmeter in the world and measure everything taking every reading but dont know what one is taking or what is that number indicate.



    The theme of WCK or better the Theme of SLT has to address these Three levels. the big picture, the contents,the methods, and the process. because that determine one's progress and attainment level and limitation.

    Original has no meaning, Traditional has no meaning, Oldest has no meaning. but what is the theme? its charactericsics? its capability? its limitation? of the style.


    One great benifit about going 2 and 3 level is that Healing is activate due to the Awareness and Zhen Qi is activate.





    I love St. Jude because he is the grantor of making the impossible possible.
    --------------

    Hey Jude don't make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Than you can start to make it better
    Hey Jude don't be afraid
    You were made to go out and get her
    The minute you let her under your skin
    Then you begin to make it better
    And any time you feel the pain, Hey Jude (Refrain)
    Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
    For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
    By making his world a little colder
    Da da da da....
    Hey Jude don't let me down
    You have found her now go and get her
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Then you can start to make it better
    So let it out and let it in
    Hey Jude begin
    You're waiting for someone to perform with
    And don't you know that it's just you
    Hey Jude you'll do
    The movement you need is on your shoulder
    Da da da da ...
    Hey Jude don't make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her under your skin
    Then you'll begin to make it better better better
    Da da da da da da da... Hey Jude...
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-27-2005 at 07:56 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    the Temple
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    1,104
    in the recent months, I brought up my 3 levels model. This 3 level model is means to serve as a GPS to give direction and depth.
    Originally posted by Hendrik "Cloudy"
    SLT avoid the Broken Arrow and the Wide horse stance. because SLT promote a dyanmic flex flow model not the other types of model.

    Thus, that is my reason, SLT is not from Jee Shim Weng Chun or HFY type of Art.
    Interesting that you believe everyone's interpretations of WCK are wrong except those of your own. Now you want to "share" your idea that no one else knows how to perform SLT.

    To truly be "aware and give direction" one would need to open their eyes and see. We may not know why you perform SLT with your eyes closed but believe me we all know all too well your reasoning for such rude post.
    Last edited by Sihing73; 07-31-2005 at 05:33 AM.
    Tony Jacobs

    ng doh luk mun fa kin kwan

    "...Therefore the truly great man dwells on what is real
    and not what is on the surface,
    On the fruit and not the flower.
    Therefore accept the one and reject the other. "

    World Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun Kung Fu Association
    Southern Shaolin Kung Fu Global Discussion Forum

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Hendrik
    Just my sharing.


    in the recent months, I brought up my 3 levels model. This 3 level model is means to serve as a GPS to give direction and depth.

    Here I state the 3 level models again.

    1, structure level, mixing level, external shape level, geometry shape level; This is the level where it is equavalent to the Atomic molecule level as in physics.

    One studied and learn different Alignement and combination of Atoms. In WCK, this is the level of those Triangle shape or the Tan Da combination.... Bai Jong


    Sticking straight and rigidly to the Program "what to do, how to do this and that" is the indication of this level.


    2, the Sub atomic level, the subtle level, the vectors components level; this is the level where one figure out what is within the Atom. How is it function. How electron spin around neucler, how proton behave, as equavelent as in physics.

    In WCK, this is the level where one KNOWs the force or momentum. This is the level where one sees the nature of the force via its components vectors for every single movement at every instance, with an AWARENESS training/tools Such as the 6 vector force of the resultant. and because of this understanding, one can have a level of better management over the structure level. This level is the True entrance into dynamic as for the structure level is mostly a static or pseudo dynamic where it cannot last long at functioning. IE one can Bai Jong, but how long that Bai Jong last after the first second of the contact? certainly a Bai Jong might/will have some advantage over the structure level or atomic molecule level person. But a stractic or pseudo dynamic level person cannot sustain after motion carried into the real dynamic domain. This level will be the begining of knowing Zhen Qi.

    Only until this second level one is capable to understand What internal means.


    Be able to deal with vast different way of incoming force is the sign of this level.




    3, The Wave level, This level brings one into the riding the Wave level. in this level, one is similar to the wave surfer, one surf the wave, due to one knows clearly the natural of the wave. This is a level deep over the sub-atomic level or the force vector level because force vector level is still rigid compare with the wave level where the "I " seperate the "force into force vectors" and manupulate them... becomes "this is the Nature of the Wave, riding it to accomplished the mission without any artificial demanding" thus, one can use anything or any shape of wave appeared.
    To enter this level, Sleep Walking states is a must because the artificial /habitual/ programed memoried /"right -wrong" in mind body, has to go. it only leaves with AWARENESS, Nature in term of Mind/body/breathing. See, artifical/habitual/programed memoried are equavelent to Weight. the more the Weight the less flexible one is. The less one can change fast. Zihen Qi is known well in these level for Zhen Qi is a part of nature.

    No more Fear but just dealing with or riding the wave as a Sleep-Walker is the signiture of this level.


    As an example, YJKUM itself has these 3 level of attaiment. Keng Geng can only be understood after second level because there is the level one learn about the nature of force. in order to have a natural Keng Geng, one has to be in the 3rd level.

    Using structure to mimic Keng geng or stressing pushing the hip....etc are great amplification of power, however, that is still not keng geng or short power of the WCK. Why so? because one needs a Structural pre-condition to do that push in the hip...etc. what if one is in the condition of having no chance to set up these? Thus, demonstration type of short power cannot be used in the dynamic flow situtation.

    AWARENESS is the key to all of the levels, eventhough each levels focus on different areas.


    So, finally, with the 3 levels or the equavalent message or catagory, one can have a sense of direction of where is one heading to. Science of Scientific has no used without knowing the levels for it is similar to one can get the best voltmeter in the world and measure everything taking every reading but dont know what one is taking or what is that number indicate.



    The theme of WCK or better the Theme of SLT has to address these Three levels. the big picture, the contents,the methods, and the process. because that determine one's progress and attainment level and limitation.

    Original has no meaning, Traditional has no meaning, Oldest has no meaning. but what is the theme? its charactericsics? its capability? its limitation? of the style.


    One great benifit about going 2 and 3 level is that Healing is activate due to the Awareness and Zhen Qi is activate.





    I love St. Jude because he is the grantor of making the impossible possible.
    --------------

    Hey Jude don't make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Than you can start to make it better
    Hey Jude don't be afraid
    You were made to go out and get her
    The minute you let her under your skin
    Then you begin to make it better
    And any time you feel the pain, Hey Jude (Refrain)
    Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
    For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
    By making his world a little colder
    Da da da da....
    Hey Jude don't let me down
    You have found her now go and get her
    Remember to let her into your heart
    Then you can start to make it better
    So let it out and let it in
    Hey Jude begin
    You're waiting for someone to perform with
    And don't you know that it's just you
    Hey Jude you'll do
    The movement you need is on your shoulder
    Da da da da ...
    Hey Jude don't make it bad
    Take a sad song and make it better
    Remember to let her under your skin
    Then you'll begin to make it better better better
    Da da da da da da da... Hey Jude...

    Man you’re deep! "Dam"!!!

    I enjoyed post...

    Ali Rahim.

    detroitwingchun.com
    Last edited by Ali Rahim; 07-29-2005 at 09:07 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    150
    One of your best post so far Hendrik.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Airdrawndagger
    AKA -Ironfist-

  5. #5

    violation

    Quote Originally Posted by canglong
    Interesting that you believe everyone's interpretations of WCK are wrong except those of your own. Now you want to "share" your idea that no one else knows how to perform SLT.

    To truly be "aware and give direction" one would need to open their eyes and see. We may not know why you perform SLT with your eyes closed but believe me we all know all too well your reasoning for such rude post.



    Mr. Canglong,

    This is a public announcement.

    I have never given you my personal picture,
    and
    I have never signed or released to any person the right that they can publicly release my photo to public such as Web or Web discussion forum.


    I here request you to pull out my picture and make sure you have no possesion of my picture to avoid further legal action taken toward you.


    Best Regards
    Hendrik Santo

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=Hendrik]

    in the recent months, I brought up my 3 levels model. This 3 level model is means to serve as a GPS to give direction and depth.

    Originally posted by Hendrik "Cloudy"
    SLT avoid the Broken Arrow and the Wide horse stance. because SLT promote a dyanmic flex flow model not the other types of model.

    Thus, that is my reason, SLT is not from Jee Shim Weng Chun or HFY type of Art.


    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------




    Interesting that you believe everyone's interpretations of WCK are wrong except those of your own. Now you want to "share" your idea that no one else knows how to perform SLT.

    To truly be "aware and give direction" one would need to open their eyes and see. We may not know why you perform SLT with your eyes closed but believe me we all know all too well your reasoning for such rude post. -----Canglong


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Mr. Canglong,

    speaking of Closing eyes,
    WCK being well know by practicing Chi Sau Blind folded and other blind folded training in AWARENESS training. if you have problem with this type of Training in WCK. Then, that only shows that you doesnt know WCK.


    SLT needs to AVOID stagnation and imbalance or Broken Arrow (means not balance and not equilibrium or over extended. Yee chuan also has a term call Broken Sharp or Broken Edge) . The reason is simply The Zhen Qi or the Jing will get stuck. Check with all the internal art masters to see what they say? So, unless one wants their SLT in a different way. That is perfectly ok for me since everyone is free to choose or create thier own style and RESPECTED.

    So, quit making comment on what you have no idea of.


    If you have great reason to belive different from my post, bring it up to show everyone and discuss.


    There are people who written articles , books and speculate that they are the Original or Oldest of WCK ; and other's WCK is watery down: without any depth examination in the DNA or Theme of the WCK ART vesus the Major Player TCM which exist in China for past 400 years.

    Compare with those people, What is the problem for me to show my reasons which is different to those people but accord to the Wing Chun ancestors of RedBoat who practicing SLT/SNT?
    is that rude just because I dont share your believe? or you dont want to see reality similar to a vampire dare not to see light. So proceed with all kind of hidden in the dark acts?

    This is USA in 2005, if you have reason, bring it out and let the public make thier own mind. The rest of blaming me is a wasting of energy. In the bottom line "is it or is it not" what happen in the past none of us can change history even we can make His-story or trying to force others to believe similar to the old time dictators which is not empowerment others but empowerment himself or his group but dis-empower everyone who dont join the club. Those are passed world this is a high tech liberate world 2005.

    Disregard of who is right, the point is it is just a study of past or the Theme of SLT or WCK, and everyone benifit to know what is going on.

    So what is to hold on to attach to motivate you to do personal attack? isnt it not ZEN or Chan to attach to "i am right otherwise I will use all the personal attack to take you down?" You can dis-agree with my view. But that doesnt mean you need to attack me personally. You can choose to reason, You can choose to express your anger due to your own reasoning based on your personal believe system. there are ways and ways to handling things. World is not just anti-Qing or Qing, at least not in this world and this era now.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-30-2005 at 11:12 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Airdrawndagger
    One of your best post so far Hendrik.
    Thanks for sharing.

    Airdrawndagger
    AKA -Ironfist-

    Hope it can contribute some good and empower we all to face the coming era.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,714
    To truly be "aware and give direction" one would need to open their eyes and see.
    Actually, Canglong, forms require an inward focus which closing the eyes may assist. Beginners such as yourself should try it sometime.

    Picking on a guy for doing his forms with eyes shut shows a lack of imagination and intellectual ability, not exactly a surprise to anyone who has followed your posts.

    Care to share some photos of your own performance? We could all use something to laugh at.

    That' said, I think Hendrik's complaint is rather too precious. Unless the photographer didn't get his good side or something.
    Last edited by anerlich; 07-30-2005 at 07:00 PM.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
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    AWARENESS is the key to all of the levels, eventhough each levels focus on different areas.
    I was taught in the first part of SLT that you put awarness in your fook, huen, and wu saos. That keeping that focus there is what helps develope power. At first I could not feel anything, but after I learned to relax I could feel it.

    Also, in biu jee in the opening part where you exercise the hand we also move our fingers. There are several benefits of doing this but one benefit is to establish the awareness that the fingers are there.

    To me, in my latest experiences with wing chun, I find that the wing chun awareness can bring light onto things normally not seen. I find wing chun techniques in ground fighting, I find them at long range fighting, I find them in driving my car, doing the dishes, and even while watching TV.
    http://www.wingchunusa.com

    Sao gerk seung siu, mo jit jiu - Hands and feet defend accordingly, there are no secret or unstoppable maneuvers.
    -Yip Man

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Gangsterfist

    To me, in my latest experiences with wing chun, I find that the wing chun awareness can bring light onto things normally not seen. I find wing chun techniques in ground fighting, I find them at long range fighting, I find them in driving my car, doing the dishes, and even while watching TV.


    It is about life. Everyone lives in a different Era. Bruce Lee has his we have ours.
    And for our's IMHO we need to get into the holistics WCK. Were AWARENESS play the platform role.

    IMHO. the Ancestors knowledge and insight are deep contradict to most think it is limited to rebels and fighting fighting or survival. it is much similar to a Holistic Healer, alchemist, sourcelor (sp). They deal with energy realm. We were brought up distorted via the Hong Kong movies and the fighting around the world. However, we cannot continous on these narrow view, for our world is expanding with internet and cell phones..... and lots to come.

    Life becomes imbalance, so does the art we practiced, since art is based on ourself. if our life is imbalance our art also will be imbalance.

    A holistic healer job is to heal one own self or balance one own self before one can heal others. A holistic healer' view is vast and beyond the thoughts and believe.

    For a believe lock into our mind is a automatic by-passed exercution computer comand or a curse as called in the past. And the Way to break it is to know that those are just thoughts and one can change them. IF we can change our believe then we can change our life.

    That is about Siu Niem Tau. understand that we can change what is not working well.

    To bring one to live balancely into this very moment or NOW is to bring one to live in SPRING. One doesnt live in the past were we cannot change and the future which we can get there only via Now.
    Last edited by Hendrik; 07-31-2005 at 11:26 AM.

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