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Thread: Internal arts and self defense against blade weapons.

  1. #1
    dz Guest

    Internal arts and self defense against blade weapons.


    The Filippine MAs are well-known to be
    effective against armed opponents,
    especially those with bladed weapons
    such as knives.

    Now, it's also well-known that Chinese
    internal arts are effective in self-defense
    and unarmed combat. But what about knives
    and fighting against armed opponents?

    My question is, how do you people,
    practising an internal art, train to defend
    yourselves against a blade? Are you using
    methods from Filippine or MAs from other
    countries/cultures? Or do you think that
    the methods/techniques within your own
    system are good enough? If so, what style
    do you practise and what methods do you

    Mark (yes, Wai is my Chinese name)

  2. #2
    Kristoffer Guest


    "PTCC/WTCC, some other styles as well"

    what's ptcc and wtcc?

    the super-duper supreme

  3. #3
    dz Guest


    I assume that you are referring to another
    of my posts on this board. PTCC/WTCC is the
    name of the style of Tai Chi Chuan I'm
    practising, Practical/Wudang Tai Chi Chuan.
    More information on PTCC/WTCC can be found on
    <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>

    What style/styles and where in Stockholm do
    you practise?


    PS. Yes, I do speak Swedish, but this IS
    an international board after all. :)

  4. #4
    count Guest

    Internal styles and knife defense.

    Do you mean unarmed defense or do I get a choice of weapons to defend with? There are many different "in-close" methods from the chinese internal styles. In bagua we have deerhorn knives, judges pens, and daggers among others. All of the techniques are brutal to the bone. Fortunatly, I have never had to use them in real life situations to stab, slice, shave or cut an enemy. I know the techniques of the Filippines are effective as they have been necessary and effective for street survival. They work. But in response to your question, there are an equal number of knife techniqes in Chinese martial arts. There is really no reason to borrow from other styles for this particular situation. Anyway, a weapon is only an extension of the arm and if I were using one it would come from the styles I have learned.

  5. #5
    Sam Wiley Guest
    The Internal arts contain very good defenses against bladed weapons. While other arts are now famous for their knife defenses, the Internal arts contain methods just as effective. I have seen some of the training from other systems, and the same methods or ones very similar are found in Taiji and Bagua.

    We usually train these methods with a fake knife, however, I have also tested many of them against live blades and they work.

    "To enter is to be born, to retreat is to die."
    -An Old Taijiquan Saying

  6. #6
    Kristoffer Guest


    oh, I see..

    I train at 'sthlm wushu akademi' <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>
    the style is O Shin Shuen.

    the super-duper supreme

  7. #7
    Kristoffer Guest


    <A HREF="" TARGET="_blank"></A>
    sorry :rolleyes:

    the super-duper supreme

  8. #8
    Esteban Guest

    great question, but I think part of the reason for it is that very few tjq schools teach empty-hand against blade techniques. The techniques, as another poster said, are certainly there. But, I'd make an even stronger argument. Imho, tjq and bagua, being based on either yielding or evasion, use inherently effective strategies for combatting a blade. Well, simply put, any system that depends on "blocking" has to worry more about sharp weapons. Anyway, tjq and bagua also have weapons training. Big knife (halberd), little knife (saber), very small knife (from fan to fingernail), these are just different lengths for the same weapon. Hmm, reminds me. There's an old karate book that's called "My Hand is My Sword."


  9. #9
    dz Guest

    My point, more exactly.

    First, thank you all that contributed with
    interesting answers to my question. But I
    must point out that I didn't put my question
    correctly. I wasn't wondering if there are
    techniques and methods for unarmed knife/blade
    defense (since I know that they exist), I was
    rather wondering if the existing material is
    pressure tested and "good" enough for
    modern street self defense.

    I do know that most Chinese Internal styles have
    weapon techniques incorporated, but how many
    of modern practitioners learn to use them
    correctly and effectively, like FMA practitioners
    do for an example. Why the Filippine/Indonesian
    systems are so good at knife fighting/defense
    is, as another poster pointed out, that they
    have been necessary for street survival in the
    social structure of these countries.

    Yes, knives and other weapons are extensions
    of the arm. But there is a major difference
    between a blade and a hand; while you must
    do a correct connection with your hand to
    deliver your technique, a blade needs much less
    power and precision to do serious damage.

    Sam Wiley, I got particulary interested in
    your post. How, more exactly, do you train
    with the fake/real knife?

    Sorry, too much rambling. :)

    Wai (OK OK, I'll try to be consistent with
    my name!)

  10. #10



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Plymouth, MN (Minneapolis)
    "My question is, how do you people, practising an internal art, train to defend yourselves against a blade?"

    My old taiji class (Yang Lu Chan via student of Erle) trained with rubber knives and such. We used our taiji to defend. You could disarm someone with a knife with a good internally powered wingblock (once did it to my instructor).

    Once you are moving internally and could generate some power (explosive power - fajing - in particular) - I would say just play with someone attacking you with a rubber knife. You learn a lot that way.

    I don't think enough of this has been explored (or known) by most taiji people - but with my own experience in some of this kind of training, I know the defenses are there.
    ~ Eric Putkonen
    (Teaching Tai Chi Chuan in Plymouth, Minnesota)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 1970
    Warrenville Il
    If your system does not teach the aggressive use of a knife, and by that I mean a knife and not a halbred or a sword, it really is not going to get a deep and functional understanding of its defense.

    The same one linear that grapplers use also extends to the discipline of knife combatives. "To best defend against a grappling technique you have to train in a grappling art."

    To best defend against a knife attack you have to train in a system which has a primary element of short-blade work.

    FMA's, IMA's, Kuntao, Military Combatives, Hwarang-do, Danse de Rue, Banashay, Tanto-Jutsu, Krabi Karbong, Spanish Navaja, Lua, are just a few off the top of my head.

  13. #13

    Re: Kristoffer,

    Originally posted by
    PTCC/WTCC is the
    name of the style of Tai Chi Chuan I'm
    practising, Practical/Wudang Tai Chi Chuan.


    PS. Yes, I do speak Swedish, but this IS
    an international board after all.
    Do you happen to have a really short last name? If so, I think we might have met in Linköping earlier this year.


  14. #14


    OMG, revival of a two-year-old thread.

    Chimpy, true. Who are you?

  15. #15
    The one who pushed hands with you and Mikael in the big guys weight category. I'm lighter now

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