Does internal arts or chi gong require movements?

[atip]

What's the purpose of all that movements?

When you do chi gong, cannot you just medidate -- sit still -- and circulate the energy around? I've never performed those chi gong movements, but I already have some basic skills with manipulating chi, will I gain by doing the movements?

Now that you have the internal chi circulation, if you know how to use it for martial purposes, do you still need to associate it with Tai Chi or Pagua attack's movements?

For example, if I become very powerful with Chi, can I it to supplement -- for example -- a modern moxing straight punch?

My wonder is why does chi gong movement and meditation always get taught together.

And most of the schools I have been to only knows the movements, and I can feel them try to make up the answer when I start asking about the internal strength and meditation. And I can see most of the students who have perfected those movements for 2 -5 years and still know nothing about Chi.

[denali]

Some movements are more for beginners.. It is true that when you have some skill, you can practice anytime. You can go for a walk in the park and be training your chi gong.

Some movements or postures are necessary though, and are specific to a certain type of training.. lining up specific meridians, etc. There are many different types of chi gong exercises .. best to find out a good teacher who can answer the questions for you and actually show you. There are some subtle "tricks" to chi gong training that it seems many "masters" are not teaching. Without a master who will give you this knowledge it is very difficult to progress. The breath practice may be of some benefit, but you would ultimately be wasting your time.

I think it is difficult to really understand these things until you train them .. let alone try to explain on the forum.

[Becca]

Originally posted by atip


My wonder is why does chi gong movement and meditation always get taught together.

And most of the schools I have been to only knows the movements, and I can feel them try to make up the answer when I start asking about the internal strength and meditation. And I can see most of the students who have perfected those movements for 2 -5 years and still know nothing about Chi.

Chi Gong and meditation are taught to gether because you need to be in a meditative state to focus your mind and allow the Qi to flow effectively. With experience comes the ability to slip into this state without consious thought. The movements are ment to help teach you who to use the Qi once you have mastered how to manipulate it.

The second point is that you still haven't found a school that works for you. Keep looking; you will find one that is right for you.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Movement is LIFE.. it is what we do.. that is why we train to move with intention, with stillness in motion.. Stillness is not a static seated posture, it is a state of mind, a condition of the spirit that permits us to arrive in the present moment.. Personally, i train with movements so i can approach daily living with that same level of calm awareness..

Chi is not some mystical force.. it is the natural energy that animates our bodies.. The reason we train with movement is to enhance the totality of the life experience.. Movement and chi training are refinements, if one assumes that through seated meditation and chi manipulation they have fulfilled their training and have reached the summit.. i hope they will re-evaluate the potential for endless refinement..

Physically, we build a structure for the Chi to express itself.. mentally and spiritually we explore that structure and refine the most beneficial paths and modallities for Chi expression.. ultimately, if we're lucky, mind, body and spirit merge into a single higher being.. an evolved, enlightened being.. one that understands the wisdom of simplicity..

oops, it seems that i may have blabbered a bit too much philosophy.. i beg your indulgence.. Be well..

[miscjinx]

"When you do chi gong, cannot you just medidate -- sit still -- and circulate the energy around?"

Yes.

"I've never performed those chi gong movements, but I already have some basic skills with manipulating chi, will I gain by doing the movements?"

You have to find our what they are teaching/training with those movements. Their answer will be insightful.

"Now that you have the internal chi circulation, if you know how to use it for martial purposes, do you still need to associate it with Tai Chi or Pagua attack's movements?

For example, if I become very powerful with Chi, can I it to supplement -- for example -- a modern moxing straight punch?"

I would say yes, if you find a good tai chi or pagau school. Using chi energy is only part of it. Internal strength also includes learning a different way of moving your body. Internal strength is not merely using chi. A modern boxing straight punch done the normal way is external.

"My wonder is why does chi gong movement and meditation always get taught together."

From my research into chi gong, the most common answer I've seen is that movement based chi gong is Yang and still meditationis Yin - they seek a balance, so both are taught together. A well rounded internal martial artist, I was told once, will do an equal share of physical movement training/form, standing meditation, and sitting meditation. Each has their own purpose.

[crumble]

For what it is worth, this is what I've learned during the 1 1/2 years I've been doing chi kung... Part of the reason I'm mentioning my experiences is to encourage other people to comment on their own training. Of course, I'm very interested in people who have done more training than I have!

What's the purpose of all that movements? When you do chi gong, cannot you just medidate -- sit still -- and circulate the energy around? I've never performed those chi gong movements, but I already have some basic skills with manipulating chi, will I gain by doing the movements?

I haven't been told to "move chi". That could be a more advanced practice. For me, what is being emphasized is coordination, so that all the parts of the body are connected together and moving together. It's an efficient and powerful way of moving. The movements are done so that you get used to keeping your body connected during movement. First it's done slowly in chi kung so that it can be learned and then applied to forms, sparring, and fighting.

Now that you have the internal chi circulation, if you know how to use it for martial purposes, do you still need to associate it with Tai Chi or Pagua attack's movements? For example, if I become very powerful with Chi, can I it to supplement -- for example -- a modern moxing straight punch?

Again, I don't know about "chi circulation", but the martial purpose of the movements comes immediately. You can think of each joint in the body like a pulley. The more joints that are involved in a movement, the more leverage and power you have. And if the body is coordinated, moving together, the more mass is behind a movement. So a modern straight punch would become more powerful due to better body mechanics.

My wonder is why does chi gong movement and meditation always get taught together.

Each of the movements have broad applicability to techniques, so you train the core movement first, get good at it, and then you can learn techniques one after the other, very quickly. There is a limited number of core movements which apply to most techniques. Even the standing meditation (standing post) has a physical component at it's core.

And most of the schools I have been to only knows the movements, and I can feel them try to make up the answer when I start asking about the internal strength and meditation. And I can see most of the students who have perfected those movements for 2 -5 years and still know nothing about Chi.

I know what you mean! I haven't seen many schools that could explain how the movements relate to fighting either. Actually, what I've seen is they can explain it with "chi" and and "meditation" and so-called internal strength, but it can't really be demonstrated. I think most chi kung is like tai chi for health: people get healthier and feel better because they are moving their body more than they did before taking the class. But that doesn't mean it's because of some mystical idea - they are just moving around more!

So far what I've been taught could be explained using western terms like coordination and alignment. I have to admit, I am very skeptical of people that explain things using terms like meridians and such, simply because I've never experienced a meridian. I'm still very open to those ideas, however. I experience chi as just feelings in my body. And when I'm doing things right, my body feels very coordinated, relaxed, and with good alignment.

So that's a newbie's response. Hope it helps in some way.

-crumble

[Becca]

Originally posted by crumble
I have to admit, I am very skeptical of people that explain things using terms like meridians and such, simply because I've never experienced a meridian.[/B]

Maridian is another term for the pathway Qi uses to move through your body. It is also the name of an anient liniment used to keep your arms from bruising durring arm drills.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

i don't believe movement and Qi are seperate.. each is inherent in the other.. it is mostly a matter of where we focus our attention...

Be well..

[No_Know]

atip, you've got basics of circulating ch'i, you say. O.K. But I think you don't use it to much above being able to say I can circulate it.

If you could sit and regenerate/revitalize tissue.organs/systems/alter your metabolism/compensate for local temperature/massage your skin and muscles... with your ch'i circulation you still need movement like you were thinking though more varied than you might have imagined.

Sitting and circulating seems to restrict circulation where your parts meet the floor. If you stood for more complete circulation your feet restrict circulation. Even if you levitate gravity still might affect flow of circulation.

Cut yourself ogg from gravity influences and can regenerate/revitalize tissue.organs/systems/alter your metabolism/compensate for local temperature/massage your skin and muscles... Then you don't need movement like you probablly ment...to a point--That's only Self based.

There's more than You in the World. So (needle and thread), All the afore mentioned with interacting with various numbers and levels of people .

Then you might have a clue~ (no offense basically intended).

[bodhitree]

modern moxing

[shaolinboxer]

Some say the only thing we are capable of doing is moving.