Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: vertical fist

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    193

    vertical fist

    vertical fist

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Have just been reading bits of Jack Dempsey's Championship fighting book online.He talks about using a vertical fist and aiming with the knuckle of the ring finger.So when you hit a target what knuckles do you aim with and what knuckles make contact?do you try to land with the three knuckles etc?or do you use the whole surface of the vertical fist e.g the knucks and fingers?
    also do you use the wrist motion as in the one inch punch demo when doing a normal straight punch?or do you think this is unsafe because it puts too much pressure on the little finger knuckle which is weak?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Toronto, canada
    Posts
    937
    Blog Entries
    1
    In my experiences punching with the pinky, and ring knuckle is perfectly fine providing you are punching at the correct angle!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    New York, New York
    Posts
    161
    Quote Originally Posted by ironmonk
    Have just been reading bits of Jack Dempsey's Championship fighting book online.He talks about using a vertical fist and aiming with the knuckle of the ring finger.So when you hit a target what knuckles do you aim with and what knuckles make contact?do you try to land with the three knuckles etc?or do you use the whole surface of the vertical fist e.g the knucks and fingers?
    also do you use the wrist motion as in the one inch punch demo when doing a normal straight punch?or do you think this is unsafe because it puts too much pressure on the little finger knuckle which is weak?
    Interestingly, or by coincidence, the ring finger knuckle is the center of the three bottom knuckles that define the area where you get most structural support from a vertical fist hit. I doubt whether Dempsey advocated only making contact with the knuckle of the mid finger. How could you guarantee where you made contact if your opponent was always in motion? Also, chances are there was a lot of broken wrists, and hands. That environment probably evolved some hard earned knowledge in fist preparation. Did Dempsey mention exercises to train the knuckles, fingers, back of the palm or the muscles on the inside of the palm? I wonder how they compare to our supplimental exercises.

    Do you recommend the book? Why/Why not? - Thanks in advance.
    /Marcus

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Toronto, canada
    Posts
    937
    Blog Entries
    1
    Where can I find Jack Dempsy's book online. what's the website?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,607
    Where can I find Jack Dempsy's book online. what's the website?
    Say "please" when asking for something.

    First 19 chapters, without drawings, are at Stickgrappler's MA page.

    Google is your friend.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    5,607
    Did Dempsey mention exercises to train the knuckles, fingers, back of the palm or the muscles on the inside of the palm?
    No.

    Do you recommend the book?
    Yes.

    Why/Why not?
    Because it's an excellent exposition of a world class fighter's approach to his craft.
    "Once you reject experience, and begin looking for the mysterious, then you are caught!" - Krishnamurti
    "We are all one" - Genki Sudo
    "We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion" - Tool, Parabol/Parabola
    "Bro, you f***ed up a long time ago" - Kurt Osiander

    WC Academy BJJ/MMA Academy Surviving Violent Crime TCM Info
    Don't like my posts? Challenge me!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by kung fu fighter
    Where can I find Jack Dempsy's book online. what's the website?

    here is the link as the one on stickgrapplers page doesnt seem to be there anymore

    http://www.freewebs.com/strulz/jackdempseysbook.htm
    Last edited by IRONMONK; 07-30-2005 at 04:48 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by marcus_pasram
    . I doubt whether Dempsey advocated only making contact with the knuckle of the mid finger. How could you guarantee where you made contact if your opponent was always in motion?
    i think he means aiming with the ring finger but landing with three knuckles

    here is the bit where he talks about this

    "Unfortunately, however, the hand-bone behind the little knuckle is the most fragile of the five back-bones. It can be broken the most easily. YOU MUST NOT ATTEMPT TO LAND FIRST WITH THE LITTLE KNUCKLE. Instead you must TRY TO LAND FIRST WITH THE KNUCKLE NEXT TO YOUR PINKY (the ring finger). We'll call that the 2nd knuckle. Aiming with the 2nd knuckle usually brings about a THREE-KNUCKLE landing. Those THREE-KNUCKLES ARE: MIDDLE, SECOND (RING) AND PINKY. If you aim with the 2nd knuckle, those three knuckles usually will land togther because the average fist slopes slightly from the middle knuckle to the pinky. Such a three-knuckle landing not only prevents the hand-bone behind any one knuckle from bearing all the punch shock, but it also permits punching ALMOST EXACTLY ALONG THE POWER LINE. Rarely will one of those knuckles make a solo landing. But if you aim with the little knuckle, you risk a dangerous solo landing on forehead of blocking elbow.
    "Always aim with the second knuckle - the one next to your pinky (the ring finger) - and let the other knuckles take care of themselves. They'll take care of themselves all right; for the shape of the fist makes it impossible for them to do otherwise. Clench your right fist and inspect its knuckles. You thumb knuckle is "out of the way" - completely separated from the four knuckles on the striking edge of your fist. More than that, your thumb knuckle is ****hest away from your pincky knuckle - ****hest away from the end of the power line. Nature took care of that. Never double cross nature and by trying to hit with that thumb knuckle, under and circumstance. It breaks easily. Keep it out of the way."
    "The knuckle of your "index finger" (the one next to the thumb) is fairly prominent, but not as prominent as the knuckle of your middle finger. In some face punches and most body blows, that "index knuckle" will land with the other three, for a four knuckle landing. That's okay. let the index knuckle come along for the ride. Under no circumstances, however, try to land first with that index knuckle. If you do, you'll not only break your power line, but you may break your wrist."
    "Beware likewise of trying to land first with the prominent middle knuckle - the source of most hand injuries. Such aiming will slant your hand off the power line and, at the same time, endanger the middle knuckle and its hand bone. When that middle knuck makes a solo landing, itprominence prevents the other knuckles from helping to absorb some of the punch shock. That shock or pressure is terrific in any full-fledged punch, particularly when you nail an opponent with a head blow "just as he is stepping into you." In that split-second, your fist must withstand the shock pressure of an explosive collision between two hurtling body-weights"
    "Let me repeat: If your punch is landed correctly, in power-line fashion, three knuckles - pinky, second (ring) and middle - will share the pressure and distribute it over the thre hand-bones behind the knuckles. That lessens the chance of brusing or crushing any one knuckle, or fracturing any one hand-bone
    Last edited by IRONMONK; 07-30-2005 at 04:47 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by marcus_pasram
    Do you recommend the book? Why/Why not? - Thanks in advance.
    /Marcus
    as you can see the book is very detailed-i think its an amazing book and definitely worth reading the link (its priced at $350 on amazon )

    and i agree with anerlich that its an insight into someone who has proven himself in the ring!!!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 1969
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    4,658
    Quote Originally Posted by IRONMONK
    as you can see the book is very detailed-i think its an amazing book and definitely worth reading the link (its priced at $350 on amazon )

    and i agree with anerlich that its an insight into someone who has proven himself in the ring!!!
    I have a copy. I didn't know it was that valuable.
    PR
    Sifu Phillip Redmond
    Traditional Wing Chun Academy NYC
    菲利普雷德蒙師傅
    傳統詠春拳學院紐約市

    WCKwoon
    wck
    sifupr

  11. #11
    Hey there ,
    When I punch, I aim my knuckle on my middle finger to hit the target. I've broken my hand twice (pre-ving tsun) both times it was the second last metacarpal (ring finger). Maybe I'm just afraid of breaking it again but I find that I try to have as much of the fist land in the punch for 2 reasons, 1. to cover as much surface area and 2. to spread the force across the whole fist so I don't get hurt.

    J
    Yo mama is so fat, she has jeans made by Jeep


    Oh ya, well Yo mama is so fat, she has a blackbelt at McDonald's

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Redmond
    I have a copy. I didn't know it was that valuable.
    PR
    It went out of print years ago so it a rare book and ppl are selling it at $350

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/off...?condition=all

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •