I used BJJ in a multiple attacker confrontation this weekend

[SevenStar]

This weekend on the job, we had several altercations break out - all of them except one involved multiple opponents. I guess there was just something in the water they were drinking this weekend...

Anyway, this particular altercation involved a guy reacing under a waitresses skirt and grabbing her. One of the club managers saw him, removed his hand and warned him not to do it again. The man took issue to this and swung at the manager. Myself and two other guys subdued him so we could escort him outside - then hell broke loose. Turned out that the guy was in town for a family reunion and that several of his family members were there as well, and weren't too happy about us tying him up. The three of us handled four people and managed to take them all down stairs and throw them out. Once on the street, they got rowdr again, and a few more of the family members from inside came running out (one of them was a female)

One guy in particular was pretty big and they were having troble keeping him still, so I swept his laeg from under him and he fell to the ground. We all followed him down, and he started flailing his arms while attempting to stand. I snatched one of his arms and applied a kimura - I didn't want to snap it, but I wanted him to comply - which he didn't. I warned him by saying "Listen, if you don't calm down, I'm gonna break your focking arm" I felt some hits during the time, but none of them were painful at all - I'm guessing they were just glancing or accidental hits from the guys other guards were fighting. Next thing I know, I get blindsided and knocked off of him, so I reach for my flashlight / stun gun (which I actually should've brought out earlier) and noticed that the guy who hit me was a cop. I said "wtf - I work here!" and spectators yelled that I was an employee. He cuffed the roughneck and later apologized for knocking me off of him.

After I got up, I saw another of our guys - a wrestler - with a man back mounted and under control. Ordinarily, I don't post about things that go on there, but since we often have the grappling vs multiple attacker debates, I figured it would be good here. That said, I feel the same way I have always felt - If you have to take him down, then by all means do so. Just be sure you know how to escape properly so that you can get back to your feet quickly. Also, the possibility to get hit by someone unseen is definitely there, so you have to be aware af everyone around you. being on the ground on the street or in a club doesn't always equate to you being shredded by broken glass, however, rolling on the concrete isn't comfortable. I didn't feel the scrapes I'd gotten until after the confrontation though, so I'm not even sure that "you can get torn up by the concrete" argument is even a legit factor.

[David Jamieson]

20 more events like that and you'll realize it was all untrue and that it was all true...at the same time!

good for you on the being mister nice guy thing. How did you find out they were there for a family reunion, were you chatting up the femme afterwards?

[SevenStar]

20 more events like that and you'll realize it was all untrue and that it was all true...at the same time!

good for you on the being mister nice guy thing. How did you find out they were there for a family reunion, were you chatting up the femme afterwards?

I talked to them beforehand - before the guy decided to reach his hand up the girl's skirt. Plus, they wore those cheesy family reunion tees that people get for such events.

[fa_jing]

Curious, what is the law governing that type of work for you, especially since the action re-occured out on the street?

[PlumDragon]

Wow, sounds intense. Good story.
I hope I never have to do anything like that, but admire the clout you have for voluntarily putting yourself on the line.

[sihing]

Yeah, I guess as a bouncer you are definetly limited in what you want to do with patrons being thrown out of your establishment. I worked years of security and it was always on my mind also, although I was lucky enough to not have to use the stuff often. My own personal philosophy about fighting is to always taken them down, just that when I get them there I don't prefer to grapple with them but to continue the attack (mostly striking) while they are more immobile while on the ground. Good points though about being aware of you surroundings and such, as this is always the case with multiple opponents or friends coming out of nowhere. That's why in bars and social gatherings I really avoid the fight, unless there is no choice. You never know what weapons they have hidden or access too, and where the friends are. A girlfriend of mine went out awhile back with her friend and her husband (who's in the military). While out someone said something to the husbands wife and when they got outside he got rushed by 4 of them, luckly he didn't sustain any serious injuries, just bruises and bumps. Eventually the bouncers broke it up, luckly for him...

James

[Fu-Pow]

Actually, what you posted pretty much confirms everything thats ever been said about BJJ in multiple attacker situations.

Also, it wasn't a one person vs. multiple attacker situation. It was a 3 on 4 situation.

You were blindsided by the cop. If your fellow bouncers hadn't of been there you would have been blindsided by one of the family members. And then what silly?

[SevenStar]

Actually, what you posted pretty much confirms everything thats ever been said about BJJ in multiple attacker situations.

Also, it wasn't a one person vs. multiple attacker situation. It was a 3 on 4 situation.

You were blindsided by the cop. If your fellow bouncers hadn't of been there you would have been blindsided by one of the family members. And then what silly?

then I don't stay on the ground, silly - I get back up. being that we are not supposed to strike, that was the easiest way to subdue and restrain him. Also, as mentioned I had my stun gun on me.

[Mr Punch]

You sweep him, you get back up quicker, but he still gets up and is mighty p!ssed. Then he and his family know you got moves and go even more to town on trying to hospitalise you...?

... would seem like a fairly likely scenario.

I mean, I'm not dissing it but there must have been a point where you thought, 'Rightio, I'll sweep his legs out.' At which point the fact that you had two buddies out there must have influenced your decision.

I'm with you with the concrete. Tarmac, when it's old and has those little angular stones on the top of it, is far more painful and the stones grind and digs into your knees.

[SevenStar]

Curious, what is the law governing that type of work for you, especially since the action re-occured out on the street?

We are technically not allowed to strike anyone. However, if we were justified in doing so, it's usually cool. A lot of cops are regulars there and they will back us up if what we did was definitely warranted.

we can use pepper spray, but not inside, for obvious reasons. If we sprayed it and customers walked into a lingering cloud of it, we'd likely be sued.


stun guns - I'm not sure of the legal implication of these. I know that some of the managers say don't use them and others say if that's what it takes, then go for it.

What happened on the street was provoked by them, so legally we were cool there as well. It happened right outside of the doors, which may still be considered club property anyway though - I'm not sure.

[PangQuan]

"Listen, if you don't calm down, I'm gonna break your focking arm"

+ 7 street cred

[Helena Handbask]

My brother worked as a bouncer and the fact that you swept his leg (which is considered a strike) I'm amazed you weren't charged.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Seven Star,

All said and done it sounds like you handled yourself with aplomb! You reflected afterwards to learn from the experience. You shared your experience for the benefit of all!

Good Job!!!

My only suggestion and perhaps it was done and just not mentioned is the following:

I am speaking in pragmatic terms here, that is getting the job done in the most efficacious manner.

The manager should not have put his hand on the patron! I know the patron’s behavior was inexcusable! However, if the purpose is to stop the behavior with a minimum of fuss and to avoid escalation, then social skills frequently will get the job done much more easily, even with a drunk. I understand there are times when this too is impossible. I would say a stern, but polite, warning may have obviated the reduction to violence! I just think it is worth trying before physical intervention is attempted! Then no one risks injury or lawsuit!

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

I snatched one of his arms and applied a kimura - I didn't want to snap it, but I wanted him to comply - which he didn't. I warned him by saying "Listen, if you don't calm down, I'm gonna break your focking arm".

you should've leaned a bit more into it so that he would have some soreness to remember you by.

5 points street credit.

perhaps if you had done something to his dirty finger, too....

there's an application from ytcc on flaming chicken walk where the opponent's upper arm is used to pull the joint after the lock is made. it can bruise the joint in the humerous.

[Oso]

Anyway, this particular altercation involved a guy reacing under a waitresses skirt and grabbing her. One of the club managers saw him, removed his hand and warned him not to do it again. The man took issue to this and swung at the manager.

Scott,

In the above situation, IMO, the guy crossed a major line...basically, if I'm inferring correctly, he sexually assaulted the waitress. If Seven is relating this verbatim, the manager caught him in the act of doing it.

Mental control of a situation is all well and good. But, I'm not that PC. There are some things that warrent a physical response and the manager replied with the minimum needed to stop the situation. The guy was totally 100% wrong and escalated the situation by striking.

If I'd a been Seven I'd a had to think twice before not breaking his arm just on GP.

and it seems as if he continued fighting after the control was applied. this gives anyone attempting to control through non damaging methods license to step up a notch.

and, I don't buy people, who have assaulted my waitresses, beer. I've done that with other situations but not in that one.

why are you not perceiving that what he did is a huge no-no?

waitresses may not be strippers but the same rule goes.

and FTR, I was a bouncer for 7 years and managed a crew of bouncers for the last 5 of that. during that time I only every swung on people twice and fired guys for jumping the gun too quick.

so, I hear you but the guys actions were way beyond acceptable.