I used BJJ in a multiple attacker confrontation this weekend

[7th gen yang]

In Nevada in order to teach Martial Arts I was required by the state to have a License because of this I have to be carefull of my actions on anyone.

If I hit anyone It is concidered use of a deadly weapon there is very Limited situations allowed by law for me to use force!

Also If the other party is a Senior citizen it is a felony to strike him or her!

Just a word of caution !

[Judge Pen]

In Nevada in order to teach Martial Arts I was required by the state to have a License because of this I have to be carefull of my actions on anyone.

If I hit anyone It is concidered use of a deadly weapon there is very Limited situations allowed by law for me to use force!

Also If the other party is a Senior citizen it is a felony to strike him or her!

Just a word of caution !

In any state there are very limited situations where you are allowed to hit someone. And a trained martial artist hitting someone is not automatically the use of deadly force. It can be, but it depends on the circumstances surrounding the threat, the retaliation and the type/location/force/and intent of the strike.

[7th gen yang]

I agree with you Judge, as I said your limited to what you can do and by having a license Im just a little more cautious

this can also work against you!

[Judge Pen]

I agree with you Judge, as I said your limited to what you can do and by having a license Im just a little more cautious

this can also work against you!

Oh, absolutely. Any person with training will be looked at with more legal scrutiny. "If you are such a highly trained martial artists, did you have to break his arm to adequately defend yourself or did you get carried away?" It's an interesting conundrum, but as my teacher says, "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried out by six."

[7th gen yang]

Yes, Law dosn't mean Jack If your Dead! so break away!

[Ray Pina]

Very good. Also glad you're OK. But you're very lucky those "hits" weren't cuts. Sometimes you don't feel them either but when you see a piece of yourself flapping in the breeze it's a bit of a bug out.

Any casulties (broken noses, black eyes) on your side? Theirs?

[rogue]

LOL - the monitor is now sporting the mountain dew I was drinking...

Mountain Dew? Is that what you kids call it now?

[Scott R. Brown]

coincidentally, I've had customers comment on that one. A few customers told me that they thought I was an awesome bouncer compared to the others because they were TOO confrontational - They try to force their will on someone, which only provokes them, whereas I just ask/inform politely. They cause situations; I end them before they start.

Yes 7*!!

This is the point! Your postings have seemed to indicate you possess the maturity necessary to be effective using social skills! Patrons respond to a person who appears to respect their diginity regardless of whether they actually deserve it or not! It is not a question of how they DESERVE to be treated, but a question of what works best with the least amount of effort! To impose one's will is sometimes necessary, however it demonstates immaturity and poor judgment when one behaves in a manner that escalates the circumstance. A soft voice turns away wrath! Soft overcomes hard. Start easy and move to hard as necessary! These are the underlying principles of Kung-Fu. It is the man of low skill who resorts to force when force is not necessary!!

I am sure you have found that you are able to influence the behavior of patrons more effectively than many of your partners. This is due to the respect gained from handling patrons with what they percieve to be a fair and reasonable demeanor. Patrons observe how you treat other patrons. This gains respect and builds a reptuation of fairness. It is not unheard of to actually have patrons apologize when they realize they have been behaving like a jerk! This forges a bond between the authority figure and the patron. Your reputation will protect you in many circumstances. Who knows when a patron who has been treated fairly by you will come to your assistance when necessary, saving you from injury or intervening with their own unruly friends!

Once again, GOOD JOB!!!!

[PangQuan]

you are truly a man of magnificant attributes, a king among men, the best of the best, can i have your children, lets get married, wanna meet my parents?

oh wait, nm im not gay. sry for the psych up.

[Scott R. Brown]

“It is better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6” is nothing more than an over used aphorism often quoted, but rarely actually examined for appropriateness to the circumstance! It says nothing more than, “It is better to be alive, than dead!”

Who can argue with that, however it is more frequently appropriate to say:

“It is better to be out of jail, than in jail!”

“It is better to not be sued, than sued!”

“It is better no one be injured, than anyone be injured!”

"It is better to solve a probelm without violence, than with violence

[Sifu Darkfist]

This weekend on the job, we had several altercations break out - all of them except one involved multiple opponents. I guess there was just something in the water they were drinking this weekend...

Anyway, this particular altercation involved a guy reacing under a waitresses skirt and grabbing her. One of the club managers saw him, removed his hand and warned him not to do it again. The man took issue to this and swung at the manager. Myself and two other guys subdued him so we could escort him outside - then hell broke loose. Turned out that the guy was in town for a family reunion and that several of his family members were there as well, and weren't too happy about us tying him up. The three of us handled four people and managed to take them all down stairs and throw them out. Once on the street, they got rowdr again, and a few more of the family members from inside came running out (one of them was a female)

One guy in particular was pretty big and they were having troble keeping him still, so I swept his laeg from under him and he fell to the ground. We all followed him down, and he started flailing his arms while attempting to stand. I snatched one of his arms and applied a kimura - I didn't want to snap it, but I wanted him to comply - which he didn't. I warned him by saying "Listen, if you don't calm down, I'm gonna break your focking arm" I felt some hits during the time, but none of them were painful at all - I'm guessing they were just glancing or accidental hits from the guys other guards were fighting. Next thing I know, I get blindsided and knocked off of him, so I reach for my flashlight / stun gun (which I actually should've brought out earlier) and noticed that the guy who hit me was a cop. I said "wtf - I work here!" and spectators yelled that I was an employee. He cuffed the roughneck and later apologized for knocking me off of him.

After I got up, I saw another of our guys - a wrestler - with a man back mounted and under control. Ordinarily, I don't post about things that go on there, but since we often have the grappling vs multiple attacker debates, I figured it would be good here. That said, I feel the same way I have always felt - If you have to take him down, then by all means do so. Just be sure you know how to escape properly so that you can get back to your feet quickly. Also, the possibility to get hit by someone unseen is definitely there, so you have to be aware af everyone around you. being on the ground on the street or in a club doesn't always equate to you being shredded by broken glass, however, rolling on the concrete isn't comfortable. I didn't feel the scrapes I'd gotten until after the confrontation though, so I'm not even sure that "you can get torn up by the concrete" argument is even a legit factor.

so you want to ban him EH?
fact
the first target usually has a backup contingency and the bj people cant deal with this concept.
It is absolutely imperative that you drop perps on contact ( or else why did they invent the 45?). So by hand your connection should remain soft target in order to ensure that god forbid you encounter one real 10 percenter. You see i tell all my students the same, (and most can understand ... but most do not realize) that your life can end quick in any confrontation ANY CONFRONTATION>>> ANY CONFRONTATION, SOOOO if i was in the UFC i would use GUNG FU MIXED WITH BJJ but on the streets i am using common sense and it just so happens that a good regiment of Tang Lang Quan and a good sense of realism from exp or a sifu that has exp and is not afraid to share ( my master was wonderfully generous and still is ( thank you Wu tang)

[Knifefighter]

In Nevada in order to teach Martial Arts I was required by the state to have a License because of this I have to be carefull of my actions on anyone.

Uh, that would be a business license. Just as the corner hardware store is required to have a business license.

[Mr Punch]

“It is better to be out of jail, than in jail!”

“It is better to not be sued, than sued!”

“It is better no one be injured, than anyone be injured!”

"It is better to solve a probelm without violence, than with violence

To which I'd like to add, 'Rather be carried by six, than Big John's b!tch'.


Sifu Darkfist, are you saying you agree with Seven's actions or not. It seems like you don't.

but on the streets i am using common sense

Seven, a pro bouncer with some experience, used his common sense to assess a situation and to resolve that situation without harm coming to anyone. True, this dirtwad and his family may be back, and I'm sure Seven will keep his wits about him and maybe even assume the worst if that situation arises.

Uh, that would be a business license. Just as the corner hardware store is required to have a business license.

LOL... that'd be because hardware stores... er... contain many dangerous implements, surely?!

[Judge Pen]

Scott,

All your statements are true, but there's a ranking of the priorities there. Sure, I'd rather solve a situation without violence (and in my life I've been faced with that option several times: only once, in college, did a physical altercation occur--which, come to think of it, I used a control technique much like 7* did), but if violence seems inevitable, then you use your judgment and assessment of the situation to decide the appropriate amount of force even if that means your actions may be questioned in a legal forum later. It is better to not be sued than sued (something I know a little of) but it is also better to be alive than dead. There's a priority involved that every person must use their common sense in deciding the appropriate action.

Generally speaking, I think it would be a bit arrogant for us to assume that 7* didn't use common sense in assessing the situation and making the judgment call that he did. We weren't there; we don't have all the facts. Because of this, shouldn't we give him the benefit of his judgment? He seems like a reasonable chap who knows how to conduct himself in and out of the gym.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Judge Pen

Judge Pen

Generally speaking, I think it would be a bit arrogant for us to assume that 7* didn't use common sense in assessing the situation and making the judgment call that he did. We weren't there; we don't have all the facts. Because of this, shouldn't we give him the benefit of his judgment? He seems like a reasonable chap who knows how to conduct himself in and out of the gym.

Please take a few moments to re-read my previous posts. I mention nothing but respect and compliments for the way 7 handled the situation!

My criticism is not intended to derogate! I have repeatedly made that clear! I suggest learning from the situation in order to discover possible alternatives to the course of action taken that created this debacle. 7 did what he should have and the only thing he could have, he backed up his partners. Kudos to him for that.

As to the platitude: "Carried by 6 or judged by 12" it implies only two options. Kill, or be killed. This is clearly foolsih and unrealistic! The two choices only exist in extreme circumstances and they are rarely encountered. To teach someone they only have two options to resolve a situation is simplistic and irresponsible.