Learning Mandarin

[zhugeliang]

Go to http://www.chinese-forums.com where they have answers to all your questions about learning the Chinese language and help you get started.

[pazman]

Pimsleur, ChinesePod, etc might be a little useful for complete beginners, but try to wean yourself off of those as quickly as possible. All of your listening materials should be completely in Chinese as you wrap up the beginning level.

Rosetta Stone's Chinese has vastly improved with time, even though the voice analysis still get's wonky from time to time. It's very expensive but if your school has it installed in the language lab, it's worth the time for a beginner to go through it. It's completely in Chinese and does a good job of intuitively teaching measure words right off the bat.

Reading and writing Chinese cannot be studied as you would study any other foreign language. Teaching pedagogy with regards to hanzi is complete ****. In uni, we learned the hanzi for number 1-10, which makes sense, but after that we had to learn the characters to whatever words we learned to speak in that chapter. This method is time consuming and if you fall behind even a little behind you will not succeed.

I had success later on with "Remembering the Kanji" by Heisig when I lived in Japan. I think they have a book specifically for the simplified Chinese hanzi now, but honestly either one will do since you don't learn the pronunciation of the character, you only learn a method to memorize a particular meaning of the character. It requires tons of work for a few months, but the most difficult part of learning characters is out of the way.

[ryanh]

I also agree, pimsleur is great.

[Matthew]

Pimsleur, ChinesePod, etc might be a little useful for complete beginners, but try to wean yourself off of those as quickly as possible. All of your listening materials should be completely in Chinese as you wrap up the beginning level.

I've only ever heard of Pimsleur method once in Chinese - and it was for a complete non-speaker beginner.

As for ChinesePod - I'd have to disagree with you about "waning off" as it sounds you may not have been exposed to ChinesePod.

Beginners need fundamental tone practice, orientation to the basics of the Chinese language/writing system, and immediate correction/feedback (of which ChinesePod does not offer for the most part).

I agree that listening materials should gradually progress to less english, more Chinese as well. This is why formal classes work so well, the instructor can gauge the level of the student(s) and speak accordingly.

Also - CCTV has an app you can download and literally watch any channel on Chinese Television at any time. Completely Free- highly recommended once fluency is fair-to-good (about where I am at).

[Matthew]

The banter between the hosts, which takes up half of the podcast, would be fine if it was in Mandarin and not English. It's not called English Pod.

You would have to give specific examples for me to believe this, once you're at mid-level lessons in ChinesePod, there's almost no English spoken.

For those with intermediate fluency or beyond, the upper levels are all in mandarin (except for the written corresponding learning material, which may have both).

I think Chinese Pod does a piss poor job of teaching ordinary day to day communication in the first place.

Based on this overarching generalization and your previous statement above, I really have to doubt your exposure to ChinesePod.

I stand by my criticism of Chinese Pod. It's highly overrated and not very useful for intermediate language acquisition at all.

I'll take this with a grain of salt. Why not offer constructive comparisons, or more information on your link to FleuntU, rather than unsupported criticisms of the resources others post?

ChinesePod is great for use on any MP3 playing device (any ipod, phone, computer, CD for the car, tape, etc.). In other words, I can learn Chinese in transit in trains, cars, busses, remote locations without internet, etc.

Note that I recognize the value of studying it at a desk as well, where I can practice Chinese writing, while listening/following a lesson.

I'd have to say, the FluentU looks very interesting and I'm interested to learn more..

Perhaps you would share a bit more explanation as to why you posted FluentU/how it may help?

[Matthew]

For those of you that have self-taught Mandarin, what resources have you found invaluable to your studies (websites, books, etc?)

I have found MIT's OpenCourseWare Initiative to have quite a few Chinese language classes:
http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Foreign-La...Home/index.htm

For some reason, I couldn't get this link to work, it gives me a "Page Not Found"

Very Interested in free Chinese classes Please update if possible

Some resources I use/have found:
------------------------------------
-ChinesePod
Online chinese lessons - that can be downloaded in MP3 format with corresponding PDF lessons. (Note, Old lessons can be torrent-downloaded legally and free - give it a go)

They also offer other structured online classes, video chatting, etc - but I never did any of that.

---------------------------
-Pleco App
The most useful tool I have for Chinese language - dictionary, translation tool, Optical Character reader, etc etc. all in one app.

It is for any smartphone with iOS or Android OS and is free. Nearly every Chinese learner I know has this, as well as nearly all Chinese people learning english.

-----------------------
-iTunes University

I think it may also be called iTunesU or iTunes EDU.
It is simply a section of the Apple iTunes computer application where you can search and download seminars, college classroom lessons, some text materials, subscribe to college course materials, etc.

I have found some interesting Chinese calligraphy seminars, some foundational video college courses, and a couple other neat videos on Chinese culture. Probably not the best resource, but a nice free one for sure.

------------------------
-Blogs
There are so many online that are useful, it would be too difficult remember them/link all now

------------------------
-CCTV / CNTV Player
The CCTV (Chinese TV) app for Windows that allows you to watch any channel of Chinese television.

It is really only good for getting exposure once you have strong Chinese foundation though - but wouldn't hurt to try at any level.
-------------------

It's all I could get to my head at the time being.

I also use Chinese textbooks from the College courses I took in Chinese, although they're better if you have already gone through them once.

[pazman]

Matthew, thanks for responding, I'll have to give ChinesePod a second look. The lessons I remember were the two hosts taking waaaay too much in English about cultural points, grammar points, etc. I guess they revamped the series.


Even though the website focuses on Japanese, there is a lot of good material that can be easily applied to Chinese or any other language
http://www.alljapaneseallthetime.com/blog/

[rett]

The banter between the hosts, which takes up half of the podcast, would be fine if it was in Mandarin and not English. It's not called English Pod.

At the intermediate level the Chinese host speaks Chinese most of the time. At the advanced-intermediate level both hosts speak Chinese.

We all already knew that you are too easily stimulated.

And we already know that you don't know much about Pimsleur or Chinese Pod. That's twice you've made very basic errors in describing them. Rather than providing constructive criticism or evaluation, you're just dissing resources that you don't actually know anything about. And even better, you're doing so in the same breath as you insult others.

[wenshu]

Based on this overarching generalization and your previous statement above, I really have to doubt your exposure to ChinesePod.

Why not offer constructive comparisons, or more information on your link to FleuntU, rather than unsupported criticisms of the resources others post?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fluentU#

At the intermediate level the Chinese host speaks Chinese most of the time. At the advanced-intermediate level both hosts speak Chinese.

And we already know that you don't know much about Pimsleur or Chinese Pod. That's twice you've made very basic errors in describing them. Rather than providing constructive criticism or evaluation, you're just dissing resources that you don't actually know anything about. And even better, you're doing so in the same breath as you insult others.

I readily concede ignorance of pimsleur. On the other hand, I realize it is much easier to just dismiss my criticisms of ChinesePod as unfamiliarity and attack me for not meeting your arbitrary definition of constructive rather than address them and admit that a product you are loyal to has shortcomings.

http://chinesepod.com/course/daily-l...t-pot-chitchat

That is not immersive; constant context switching, especially in the middle of a poorly acted dialogue is the last thing you should expose yourself to if you want to develop listening comprehension in Mandarin.

[Matthew]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fluentU#



I readily concede ignorance of pimsleur. On the other hand, I realize it is much easier to just dismiss my criticisms of ChinesePod as unfamiliarity and attack me for not meeting your arbitrary definition of constructive rather than address them and admit that a product you are loyal to has shortcomings.

http://chinesepod.com/course/daily-l...t-pot-chitchat

That is not immersive; constant context switching, especially in the middle of a poorly acted dialogue is the last thing you should expose yourself to if you want to develop listening comprehension in Mandarin.

Hi Wenshu,

It's clear you are a disgrunted customer, perhaps you could ask them for a refund if you are so unhappy. I really value ChinesePod personally, and know countless others who have - including many who spent a lot of their life living in China.

It sounds you are upset about it because the ChinesePod was not immersive enough for you - can you explain how your posted FluentU is more immersive? I tried the first lesson, but it was about Tennis and Sports as if from a TV Commercial or something similar. While I only have exposure to one lesson, and couldn't generalize with any accuracy about FluentU (and to do so wouldn't benefit anyone here), I would say that features it offered, including the ability to put your curser over a character and see the Chinese definition and contexts while it automatically paused the video, was very useful. For constructive comparison sake, I didn't feel it was any more immersive than ChinesePod's format of having native Chinese present lessons and discuss topics with others who have lived in China for many years.

I'd define constructive crticism and comparison as saying "While I believe Chinese Pod lacks the immersive experience of living in China, FluentU brings a more immersive experience because X Y Z facts." OR "I don't like the cultural context ("Chit Chatting") provided in many Chinese Lessons, and I believe FluentU provides faster spoken language abilities because of their superior ability to X Y Z"

For Example - the last statements of my paragraph about about FluentU and ChinesePod. Since you have more exprience with FluentU, and less with ChinesePod - perhaps you could offer more to say on Fluent U in such a manner.

Is Fluent U Highly portable and as good of a resource on-the-go? What about with an iPod touch with no internet? Or with a cd-player in the Car? Would it's features be usable in these situations?

Does it have any fully typed written scripts of each lesson it offers to assist in written practice?

Where is it's strongest suit?

[wenshu]

I don't even know where to start with all your assumptions and clear lack of critical thinking.

Since you have more exprience with FluentU, and less with ChinesePod - perhaps you could offer more to say on Fluent U in such a manner.

What the hell are you talking about?

I used Chinese Pod for over a year, downloaded > 50 lessons which I still have. Nevermind the fact that I never offered a comparision between the two in the first place, FleuntU hasn't even been in existence for that long.

I'd define constructive crticism and comparison as saying "While I believe Chinese Pod lacks the immersive experience of living in China, FluentU brings a more immersive experience because X Y Z facts." OR "I don't like the cultural context ("Chit Chatting") provided in many Chinese Lessons, and I believe FluentU provides faster spoken language abilities because of their superior ability to X Y Z"

Again, minus the comparison to FleuntU which was never the point, I offered valid criticisms based on personal experience, I just didn't use your remedial 6th grade English composition boilerplate and viewpoint.

[Matthew]

I used Chinese Pod for over a year, downloaded > 50 lessons which I still have. Nevermind the fact that I never offered a comparision between the two in the first place, FleuntU hasn't even been in existence for that long.

Thanks wenshu. I was asking if you would proide such a comparison - as a favor to those reading this thread and those seeking to learn mandarin more effectively.

While I've downloaded and regularly use quite a bit more than 50 CP lessons, I'm always seeking better Chinese Learning resources. Isn't the point of this thread - and if it is, then why not provide such a comparison based on youur experience? It would really help myself and likely others too.

I offered valid criticisms [of ChinesePod] based on personal experience

I disagreed that you offered valid criticism on CP.

Your statement that 'half of [each] podcast is in English' is false. On the lower levels, which are catered to those who are do not speak mandarin, or not fluently, this is partially true (lower level = less Chinese spoken).

Your other criticisms are all opinions (re: CP lessons are 'not immersive,' 'poorly acted out,' '**** poor at teaching "day to day communication"') that lacked much backing at all.

I realize you dislike CP. I know too many people who find it immensely valuable and even love it to take your unfounded opinions as "valid criticisms."

I say that to bring my point - Would you provide more info on a resource you linked us to - FluentU? I'm interested in your perspective on how it compares too other resources (not necessarily CP), and what you think it's best uses/strongest suit is?


Your personal insults aside, I would still like to know more about valuable Mandarin learning resources and believe anyone posting on this thread is likely in the same boat. Can you contribute to that?

[rett]

Wenshu, I see you only had a basic subscription. The CP resources I was describing are based on having a premium subscription. The premium materials associated with each lesson are very useful.

I disagree with you about the intermediate lessons not being immersive. I find them very immersive. There are hundreds to choose from, so I just ignore the ones on topics I'm not interested in.

The fact that you dissed Pimsleur without even knowing what it is tells me all I need to know about your credibility on this topic.

[wenshu]

And we already know that you don't know much about Pimsleur or Chinese Pod. That's twice you've made very basic errors in describing them. Rather than providing constructive criticism or evaluation, you're just dissing resources that you don't actually know anything about. And even better, you're doing so in the same breath as you insult others.

I see you only had a basic subscription. The CP resources I was describing are based on having a premium subscription. The premium materials associated with each lesson are very useful. The fact that you dissed Pimsleur without even knowing what it is tells me all I need to know about your credibility on this topic.

So first I didn't know anything about Chinese Pod, now it's I didn't know enough.

The fact that you avoid addressing your own erroneous assumption rather than admit a mistake tells me all I need to know about you.

I disagree with you about the intermediate lessons not being immersive. I find them very immersive. There are hundreds to choose from, so I just ignore the ones on topics I'm not interested in.

I never said anything about the extra resources, my complaint with Chinese Pod rests with the simple fact that at the beginniner and intermediate level there should be no English spoken at all.

I was very clear about that from the beginning and in contrast to you I don't need to placate my own ego by retroactively altering the context of my argument because I am paralyzed by the prospect of having to admit that I made a mistaken assumption.

[LFJ]

Chinese pod is focussed on very up to date spoken mandarin. Many other courses give outdated phrases and expressions. For example it could be embarrassing if you call a waitress or other young woman 小姐, even though this is taught in most courses.

Not really. This term is not outdated and I've never found it to be taken with offense, ever. Natives still use it here all the time; customers to waitresses, various professionals to young female clients, etc..

Anyway, Pimsleur... I've experienced several languages with it. It's an alright method for getting the ball rolling, but there's way too much English and not enough vocabulary. In all 3 levels you might get 600 total words or so. That's hardly enough to do anything with and it's way overpriced for the value.