? Chinese short staff

[K.Brazier]

http://tainan.colugo.org/tigertailwhip.mov

This is for the Chinese whip.
Usually made of metal or brass. In this vid we just use rattan.

Filmed at Tainan's Western gate.

Kevin

[Ou Ji]

Yawn
I an uneducated broke a55 prison guard looking for free techniques so I can rape the queens in medical.

Hmm, you seem to be knowledgeable about these things. Where did you do your time?

"btw, i translate the name of the form as "Hong's Evil D!ck form""

I think that confirms it. You have some serious issues to work out there boy.

[Judge Pen]

there are some fairly well edjucated people

I may be wrong, but isn't it spelled "educated" or is there some alternative spelling that I'm not aware of.

Not picking man, but the irony is too great to ignore.

[Judge Pen]

http://tainan.colugo.org/tigertailwhip.mov

This is for the Chinese whip.
Usually made of metal or brass. In this vid we just use rattan.

Filmed at Tainan's Western gate.

Kevin

Interesting. Since you are showing a two-man set, then what is the application of bringing the hard whip from behind the shoulder and over the head? Is it power generation (brass or metal would of course be heavier than the rattan used in the vid).

[Mega_Fist]

there are some fairly well edjucated people in here

I'm one of those people.

[Kymus]

Interesting. Since you are showing a two-man set, then what is the application of bringing the hard whip from behind the shoulder and over the head? Is it power generation (brass or metal would of course be heavier than the rattan used in the vid).

In kali we call this move "umbrella". You can bring it around the back of the neck, or circle it up front in a similar fashion. It's mostly defense. If someone comes at me with an angled strike, I can then move the stick in an umbrella motion thus either checking their hand with my stick, or their stick with mine and then I would proceid to use my other hand to either grab and trap their hand (or if I had a dagger/stick/sword I'd hit/slash it) and follow up with either a smash to their head/neck or I'd twist their hand and use my stick to swat their stick out of their hand (which would probably be followed up with a back handed blow to the stomach or ribs). I'm told that it can be used to block behind too, but I haven't seen much demonstration of the effectiveness of this. Of course, this is just Kali. As for Kung Fu - got me. Since all my stick training comes from Kali, I'm always very curious about kung fu's escrima-sized sticks and weapons.

[Oso]

JP; Kymus - K. Brazier will probably have a different answer than this (and my answer is not a Pong Lai answer) but there's not a whole heck of a lot of difference, IMO.

my experience is Precas' Modern Arnis for Philippine stick and 3 double stick sets taught to me by my old teacher as 'kung fu' sets. Haven't been able to verify the sets independantly other than K. Brazier telling me that the one he saw on vid reminded him of some chinese broadsword work.

anywho, based on my experience, chinese stick will umbrella less but when they do it is for the same reasons and pretty much identical angles of footwork are used. IMHO, it is the propensity of the forward 45 degree footwork in Modern Arnis that lends itself to the umbrella.

JP, I'm starting to teach a little of the arnis to my students outside of the normal curriculum. I'm not at all certified to teach it but if you want to come over some time, I'll show you what i know.

[SimonM]

In kali we call this move "umbrella". You can bring it around the back of the neck, or circle it up front in a similar fashion. It's mostly defense. If someone comes at me with an angled strike, I can then move the stick in an umbrella motion thus either checking their hand with my stick, or their stick with mine and then I would proceid to use my other hand to either grab and trap their hand (or if I had a dagger/stick/sword I'd hit/slash it) and follow up with either a smash to their head/neck or I'd twist their hand and use my stick to swat their stick out of their hand

That analysis seems to synch with what my Sifu said that movement was for. We have a nearly identical movement with the Dao as well. But a lot of our stick work is preliminary for sword work so that is not particularly surprising.

[Judge Pen]

Well it reminded me of the techniques that we teach for the dao as well and we use it defense; however, in the vid they were doing the umbrella when apart and not engaged so I saw no defensive practicallity to that thechnique at that time. Now it could be because it's in the form to teach the technique and is pretty or it could be that it is always done for muscle memory and reflexive purposes. I was curious, that's all.

Oso, I'd love to come down and spar and pick up pointers from ya. Finding the time is the real issue right now.

[SimonM]

I'll be honest. I didn't watch the video. I don't know why you would do it while separated in a two-man form...

[Oso]

Well it reminded me of the techniques that we teach for the dao as well and we use it defense; however, in the vid they were doing the umbrella when apart and not engaged so I saw no defensive practicallity to that thechnique at that time. Now it could be because it's in the form to teach the technique and is pretty or it could be that it is always done for muscle memory and reflexive purposes. I was curious, that's all.

Oso, I'd love to come down and spar and pick up pointers from ya. Finding the time is the real issue right now.

my old teacher said the stick was derived from the broadsword, something about not having access to swords during the ming/ching revolutionary times. {shrug} I haven't run across anything concrete to that affect though.


JP, no worries, I'll just keep inviting you. You can bring the woman too and we can grab some food and beer afterwards.

[Judge Pen]

JP, no worries, I'll just keep inviting you. You can bring the woman too and we can grab some food and beer afterwards.

Two of our favorite things. When things get squared with the new house, and it's not a UT game day (she's a huge fan) then we'll come down for fighting, food and beer.

[K.Brazier]

Judge Pen,
The big over the head smash is for power.

I think it is also like the umbrella you said. Though I am not familiar with the term.

Here the strike to the right and around the head is called "li nao" in the brain.
As if it is so close to your head it is in your brain.

The strike that goes to the left is called "chan toe guo nao" wrap the head and pass the brain.

Oso, I have another if you want to help me post again.

Kevin

[K.Brazier]

Since you mention sword I post three straight sword clips for you to compare.

The 1st, 2nd and 3rd are for practicing adhereing with your sword.

The 4th is a combination of adhereing and breaking away.

After this(not posted) is not touching or dodging.

If you have seen the 2 person straight sword set san tsai jian then you can see sections where neither sword touches.

http://tainan.colugo.org/slicekneesend.mov

http://tainan.colugo.org/sticky%20jian.mov

http://tainan.colugo.org/bengshao.mov

http://tainan.colugo.org/jiakai.mov

Kevin

[Oso]

Judge Pen,
The big over the head smash is for power.

same reason as arnis.

I think it is also like the umbrella you said. Though I am not familiar with the term.

personally, I can't see that 'umbrella' is a phillipine euphamism or idiom. but, I could be way wrong here. seems most likely that it was derived by americans after arnis came to the states.

in modern arnis (as I learned it) the circling part of the umbrella is used as a deflection or block as you step inside the arc of the strike and then the finishing stroke of the umbrella would be an attack. most of the time circling movements used ONLY to gain power were referred to as "'zeros" or ''double zeros"

Here the strike to the right and around the head is called "li nao" in the brain.
As if it is so close to your head it is in your brain.

The strike that goes to the left is called "chan toe guo nao" wrap the head and pass the brain.

Oso, I have another if you want to help me post again.

Kevin

Kevin, send em on. My web person is back on board.