Mantis in Sport Fighting

[Gimsong]

I believe youre looking at it from an optimisic standpoint and forgetting the main purpose of the mantis system. The mantis fights because it has no other options and it feels endangered. Mantis is made for quick attacks to end the situation. The UFC is just Mui Tai with takedowns. Its egotistical to hope for mantis to be used in an environment such as UFC. Real mantisboxing is humble and patient.

[TaichiMantis]

I believe youre looking at it from an optimisic standpoint and forgetting the main purpose of the mantis system. The mantis fights because it has no other options and it feels endangered. Mantis is made for quick attacks to end the situation. The UFC is just Mui Tai with takedowns. Its egotistical to hope for mantis to be used in an environment such as UFC. Real mantisboxing is humble and patient.

I think you can keep the two separate. There are many techniques from mantis (and CMA in general) that can be used or modified for sport fighting. Kudos to any mantis fighter that is willing to go into the ring with it! Good Luck, keep us posted...

[Ronin BaBu]

The mantis fights because it has no other options and it feels endangered. Mantis is made for quick attacks to end the situation. The UFC is just Mui Tai with takedowns. Its egotistical to hope for mantis to be used in an environment such as UFC.

You're one of those people who believe martial arts were made for self defense aren't you? Well if you are, you are WRONG. Martial arts were made for fighting. THat is the sole purpose.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the insect or the practicioner. The insect mantis does not fight because it has no other options. The [insect] mantis is a predator, it kills because it has an insatiable appetite. It does not usually have to defend itself as a human would seeing as how one of the only predators of the mantis is the bat. So on that account you are not quite accurate.
If you are talking about the practioner, well that depends on the practicioner. I'll fight if I feel offended or threatened, or just for fun occasionally. There is no kung fu law, although you may think there is. I fight for whatever I want to fight for.
If you think your style can't stand up to the fighters in the UFC, then you should find a better style, or a better teacher, or practice harder. But don't make excuses for yourself because you are not good enough.

[Oso]

given the single post, I'd say he was trolling...but, maybe not.

[Gimsong]

There is no right or wrong in this matter. There is just opinions. There is also no need to question the integrety of my system. It is, in my opinion, developed for fighting. Not for ring sparring. It is used to end the situation quickly. I agree that certain aspects of mantis could be used in ring fights, but then youre taking away the essence of the mantis systems. Do you really need to prove that your system works? What ever happened to humility?

[mantis108]

Now, if your mantis prepares you for something like in the following link:

Nunchuku and Brawling

as well as "art" (ie applications, forms, etc) You should be doing fine. If not well, may be you should do a reality check and take a look around to find someone who could help you with that.

This clip of course is 2 knuckle head kids taking their aggressions out on each other. We can see there definitely is no love between them.

The nunchuku use was pretty "non eventful". It quickly when to the ground (surprise, surprise. ) In fact, every time some one picks up the nunchuku, he usually gets into trouble more so than without it. Lots of classic text book head locks and slugging. We haven't seen fish hooks for awhile but it's rather "refreshing" (for lack of a better way to put it). Seriously though without a good position those fish hooks amounts to nothing. We can also see the kid in green trunks staggers near the end properly due to the conditioning factor and the fact that he got a good smack in the head by the nunchuku.

Good luck and good training.

Mantis108

[Ronin BaBu]

I agree that certain aspects of mantis could be used in ring fights, but then youre taking away the essence of the mantis systems.

I understand what you are saying now a bit better.
But why can't a person finish ring fights as quick as a mantis fighter supposedly finishes street fights?

And Oso were you referring to me about trolling?
I'm not sure what it is but I don't like the sound of it.

[Gimsong]

But why can't a person finish ring fights as quick as a mantis fighter supposedly finishes street fights?

That is a good point. I thought about that and there is no reason when they couldnt.
Another thing that you would have to look at is the caliber of fighter. The person who could effectivly go into a ring and use mantis to end the situation would more than likely have a few years training. In the generality of martial arts you typically find that the longer you train the less you need to fight. The idea behing this is that the man that steps into the ring would just be doing so to prove himself better, he already knows his system works and is effective, now he is just entering the ring to boast his ego.
Now to defend the style of one-sidedness that i seem to be so fond of writing. It is not completely egotistical to want to step into the ring and use mantis. I am trying to shed light on another point of view. Not challenge peoples systems or ideals.

[Oso]

I understand what you are saying now a bit better.
But why can't a person finish ring fights as quick as a mantis fighter supposedly finishes street fights?

And Oso were you referring to me about trolling?
I'm not sure what it is but I don't like the sound of it.

good lord, unbunch your panties...I was TALKING to YOU about GIMSONG

but, it might be, as I said, that he isn't trolling...time will tell.

[Jared1211]

I have been training mantis under an expert teacher. If there is one thing I've learned from him, it is that mantis is not a tournament style fighting system. It is used to hurt you're opponent quick and end the fight. It is not for trophies or flashy moves, but more for disabling the opponent. I do not think you can fight in MMA with it because of this. There is no developing the inner strength through gloves.

[Oso]

sheesh...if you can't use what you know in any venue/format than what good is it?

my only caveat to that statement is that you have to train for whatever venue you are going to compete in....AND CMA has limited ground skills so unless you cross train you are going to be sorely challenged to defend against someones ground game...

it's been said over and over again that all the 'killing' and 'maiming' techniques don't do a hell of a lot of good if you don't actually train them by killing and maiming people with them because you never follow through the technique completely. you fight how you train. if you train to...stop just short of the eye....or a soft grab to the throat...or a moderate tap to the groin...or a slow entry and incomplete follow through on the elbow break...then you DON'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO DO ANY OF THOSE THINGS.

so, put some gloves on and figure out how to tranlate what you know to a safe venue for testing it and then buy the guy who beat you/you beat a beer later.

[Ronin BaBu]

Oso, excellent point. I was just about to say that.

I tried getting at it before. People should stop making excuses for themselves; "oh I can't spar because my system doesn't work with gloves on.."
Well then your system isn't so complete.

Like you said Oso, you need to be able to adapt to certain situation. Who knows what kind of circumstance you'll encounter on the street. Better to be prepared for different kinds of problems.

And stepping into a ring has nothing to do with ego. It is a sport, an excercise, fun for some people, a career for other people. That guy was making it sound like fighting is childish and immature. I feel competition is very useful to a martial artist. It hightens your skill. It makes you train harder and more effectively when you know that you will have to stand up against another human who is going to try and beat you down.

Biyakusha!

[bung bo]

Good post, Oso.

[Oso]

thanks...but, what I said has been said by many others here...just being redundant.


bung bo: next time, we need to make sure we're on opposite sides of the line-up ...I still owe you a black eye and, yes...the kettlebells seem to be doing you some good. keep it up, bro.

[Jared1211]

I was not saying it can't be used in MMA period. Any style in the world can be slightly changed to be used in MMA. I'm simply saying the traditional/exact mantis teaching is what I'm learning. You cannot develop chi through a glove. It can be slightly differed to be used though. I do think my system is utterly complete for this one reason, I USE CHI. If 5 guys on the street run into one who really knows mantis, it shouldn't be a fight for the mantis.