Mantis in Sport Fighting

[Three Harmonies]

No attitude meant. I harbor no ill feelings towards anyone here. We owe it to the beginner martial artist's out there to start speaking with some truth and honesty, and that is all that is found in my previous post. Just trying to help a brother out with a dose of reality. I did not say his **** was fake, or bunk, or nothing. I would feel terrible if someone on this board got in an altercation and tried to use their pressure point strikes on mulitple assailants. They would get stomped!
Geez, I post a message or two after many moons of no posts and already rubbing folks the wrong way. Doesn't take me long
Jake

[Jared1211]

I will never understand the people on these forums that are here to criticize other people or their styles. First things first, I am far away from being ashamed of my teacher. I don't mention his name because he requests it. Second, internal strength does help with stamina. Not directly, but if you are using a relaxed stance which deals with chi you are not affected by stamina as much. That is what I meant. Third, someone's shins won't break quite so easily so you hit the knees instead. Last of all, I have taken more grappling than I have SPM so I have the ground game, too. Oh, and just for the record, if SPM fighters are against a wall they are not weakened any at all by this. I'm not getting an attitude with you either, Three Harmonies. I am just correcting what you misread about me. I was not talking about you being one of the critical ones at all.

[TaichiMantis]

Second, internal strength does help with stamina. Not directly, but if you are using a relaxed stance which deals with chi you are not affected by stamina as much. .

Jared, you are on the right path. As I understand it, breathing and posture (i.e. relaxed body) are all part of "internal". You expend less energy, last longer, and get more bang for your buck. I fail to see how this is not related to stamina...

[Three Harmonies]

I did not know I misread you when you said "kick them in the shin."
I would agree that being relaxed is helpful in a fight, but their is more to that in qigong. Let me ask you this..... you are preparing for a 3 round MMA fight (or full contact whatever). You only have 2 hours a day (for whatever reason) to work on stamina. Are you going to spend it on Qi gong, or grappling/sparring with a partner?
No offense with the teacher comment. Just strange, that is all.
Did not realize I was stepping on so many toes with my "criticism." I did not mean to be critical, but some of these ideas are going to get someone hurt on the street. Perhaps they work on all other levels for people, which is fine. I just find it an unrealistic approach relevant to a conversation on multiple attackers.
Forget I said anything. I do not know how many times I need to be reminded why I do not post that much here on KFO anymore. Was just trying to be realistic.
Cheers
Jake

[bungbukuen]

Jake - as I mentioned before I agreed with your points. I think everyone will agree with you that it is important to remain realistic. But I think most people would agree that it is also counter productive to write in a condesending attitude. Remeber it is not what you say but how you say it. Dont be so hard on yourself

Jared1211 - I think everyone on this board will agree for the most part that internal qigong generally has more to do with maintaining good mind/body health, rather than actually having anything to do directly with fighting. If you don't already have good levels of physical power, quickness, and skill, qigong is not going to help in anyway in a fight. Keep training hard!

BBK

[Oso]

Jared1211 - I think everyone on this board will agree for the most part that internal qigong generally has more to do with maintaining good mind/body health, rather than actually having anything to do directly with fighting. If you don't already have good levels of physical power, quickness, and skill, qigong is not going to help in anyway in a fight. Keep training hard!

BBK

well put.

I've always maintained that the qi gong was to help mitigate the damage you do to your body with the hard training. Fighting just t'aint good for you and you get broke up a lot.

[Jared1211]

Three Harmonies, I meant no disrespect at all. I was just correcting the points I didn't clarify. You are exactly right on most of what you said I just didn't say what I meant and it mislead you. Being critical to teach someone is one thing. I just don't get the people that are just critical to have a dispute with other people on here. I'm not saying you did, but I am a part of this bulletin to exchange knowledge or learn from it, however, alot of people on here just want to start an arguement. You make interesting points that I agree with. I also agree with the statement made stating if you don't have the quickness and stamina already that the qi training doesn't help at all in a fight, but if you do have the skills and the training in your style already the qi training does alot. That was very well said.

[Three Harmonies]

Jared
No worries. Sometimes folks here are a bit sensitive. I may be blunt, to the point, and in general NOT PC. But I never put anyone down or mean to condescend. I wish you, and all really, a wonderful journey on their personal warrior path. I just do not like seeing anyone mislead.
Cheers
Jake

[FightingGorilla]

taichimantis,
actully my friend and kung fu brother Joel Sutton whom I used to train with in Buffalo and in SF entered the UFC #6 representing 8 step praying mantis and yes taught by James Shyun as an alternative and won.

He was then invited back into UFC#7 in Buffalo NY as a main event and also won........ it was deemed the bloodiest UFC match in history after joel head butted the guy, split his forhead open and stuck his thumbs in the skin and ripped it open. you can still rent the Buffalo fight at blockbuster. and read about it on our news clippings button on our website www.eightstep.com

He was the first mantis style practioner to enter the old UFC and proved himself and our style worthy of MMA.

Sorry... just watched UFC # 7... the winner was NOT Joel Sutton... Sutton was one of the alternates for that fight, but the fight was won by Ruas... and the final match in UFC # 7 was between Varlenz & Ruas... the fight was in 1995...

Don't doubt Sutton might have won a UFC match, but it wasn't # 7....


FG

[Three Harmonies]

Gorilla
Interesting. I never went back and looked through the old school vids. Guess I should be careful whos word I take eh?!
Thanks
Jake

[SevenStar]

Jared, you are on the right path. As I understand it, breathing and posture (i.e. relaxed body) are all part of "internal". You expend less energy, last longer, and get more bang for your buck. I fail to see how this is not related to stamina...

that being the case, all styles have an internal component...

by stamina, however, (and I'm guessing, I've only read your post) I assume he's referring to physical elements - How long your legs last before they get wobbly, how your arms hold up until they begin to drop, your cardio and anaerobic systems, etc. Yes, relaxation can help to prolong these things, but they within themselves are not ways to increase your stamina, only a method to help you conserve what you already have.

[TaichiMantis]

that being the case, all styles have an internal component...

by stamina, however, (and I'm guessing, I've only read your post) I assume he's referring to physical elements - How long your legs last before they get wobbly, how your arms hold up until they begin to drop, your cardio and anaerobic systems, etc. Yes, relaxation can help to prolong these things, but they within themselves are not ways to increase your stamina, only a method to help you conserve what you already have.

I understand that. I was only trying to point out that internal aspects of training are not unrelated to stamina, it allows one to work more effieciently.

[bungbukuen]

Being relaxed is a pretty common attribute amoungst all high level athletes.

Even though its also pretty fundametnal to Qigong training, I think qigong involves a lot more.


So I guess my question is what other specific internal aspects are you talking about, and how do they relate to increasing stamina?




Thanks,
BBK

[SevenStar]

Sorry... just watched UFC # 7... the winner was NOT Joel Sutton... Sutton was one of the alternates for that fight, but the fight was won by Ruas... and the final match in UFC # 7 was between Varlenz & Ruas... the fight was in 1995...

Don't doubt Sutton might have won a UFC match, but it wasn't # 7....


FG

According to sherdog, he did fight in 7, but he was not a main event. He beat a guy named geza kalman by tko due to a cut. That was sutton's last win. His current record is 2-4-1.

KFM forum member subitai was in that same UFC and won his fight as well.