Chi Translated

[Pilot]

In PM, Chi is often used to explain different aspects of the style and movement.
When you have the flu, your chi is bad. You cannot fight to your peak performance. Cigarettes bring down your chi. Your energy is directly proportional to your physical and mental health. Body, mind, and spirit need to be in harmony.

I do not know if there are already books in print on this subject, but I think it would be very interesting to study chi translated into modern medical terms. I find there are some (American) people who do not grasp the concept of Chi. When in your PM class, your Sifu is explaining how you focus your mind and energy through these old (and very cool) Chinese terms, you see a lot of blank dazed faces. Chi is not some magical power like “the force” on Starwars, and it can be explained in modern medical terms. And I have not seen any proof that you can shoot magical “chi balls” like Darth Vader’s death ray to damage someone. But when you look at what is taught about chi, you find those old Masters really hit the nail on the head! I am always amazed when I compare chi explanations to the modern equivalent, of just how much these old Masters understood how the body works.

Side Note:
I LOL when I read one issue of Kungfu Magazine’s interview with a (I can’t remember who it was but he was an Asian Master or Sifu) person who used modern medicines. He said he had a special remedy for the strains and bruises for his students. When asked what secret herbs or balms he uses, he just replied take two aspirin and call me in the morning! Or something to that effect.

[mantis108]

Recently I have been reading a translation work of the Great Dialogues of Plato. I think it's in the Symposium that Socrates discussed the "nature" of Love. He reported his conversation with his female mentor about Love. Her view, which Socrates seems to agree, is that Love is a spirit that is neither immortal as the gods nor is it mortal like men. But it is a link between the two (duality). Qi in many respects is exactly like love. The truth really is that our human constitution is normally and nature trap by duality and we fail to see the third or four quality. Can you cut open a beating heart or a brian for that matter and show me what love is? How about life or God? I highly doubt that anyone can do that. But most if not all of us understood and see what love, life and God is. We might not agree with how or in what form they exist but we would agree that exist.

So we can develop model(s) that demonstrate or validate the existance of Qi but we can't really give you tangible form of Qi IMHO. For example, we can see Qi in a chain link such as : Qi - Yinyang - Wuxing - Xiangshu (Yijing study). For healing, this can be totally applied to human anatomy that in theory functions differently from western medical model. We can then apply this chain model in many ways like in Kung Fu or even in cooking. But we can't apply the western medical model in everything or anything other than finding cures for disceases. Prevention is never a strong suit of western medicine and often prevention came with a price of side effects.

Anyway, just some thoughts to begin with.

Mantis108

[K.Brazier]

Hi Robert,
I can see where you are coming from with your qi and love. But if I explain to my class I will teach them about qi and say qi is love it might be misinterpreted, especially if we have one on one private classes.

Pilot, Excellent work has been done relating all aspects of Chinese medicine to western science. This is very heavy reading as it is written for doctors. The closest thing to a layman's reading is Joseph Needham's book on the subject.

About qi, there are several different things defined by the word qi which don't mean the same thing so it is made tricky.

BTW, In the Star Wars movie "the force" is translated as qi.

Way back in the days of old, Chinese observed the effects of air that we breath on our body.
To define it they used a pictoral representaton of its visual aspect. Steam that appears when cooking rice.
This can be seen today in the actual character for qi.

The air was then imbibed with a thought initiated by the practitioner's mind(this one sentence can easily be expanded into a huge book).
From here the different view points on the definition and effects of qi emerge.

As well as the different ways of training it.
There has been recorded since ancient times the methods of training the qi, which is in many cases the union of mind and body, and in some cases, especially in some asian religions, the spirit.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

With just a few assumptions we can get some neat perspectives on Qi.. assume Qi is bio-electrical energy.. assume that one's intentions or will or mind can control or manipulate energy (good science assumes this by supportive evidence).. assume that ancient minds didn't have the ability to measure and study the way we do today.. assume that air is essential in the human's ability to produce and cultivate Qi.. Now, we can consider that Qi (bio-electrical energy) is the life-force that powers our physical existence and links us to all other energies.. we can cultivate our energy through various disciplines.. use it wisely to power our bodies, almost mystically with good discipline and training.. The ancients couldn't understand the science as we do today and so they mystified Qi as some sort of magical force.. but, even now, those willing to really delve into it can produce amazing results.. clear intentions, good health habits, an in-depth study of anatomy (Eastern and Western), and an open mind will serve the aspiring Qi student well..

Be well..

[Pilot]

Thanks for the tip on the book K.Brazier. I will check it out.

[mantis108]

LOL ! I hear you. I certainly don't want be charged with corrupting the youth and punished to death by Hemlock.

Warmest regards

Robert

[EarthDragon]

Pilot................here is a great explanation as qi is a metaphor - it is multi-layered, culturally contextualized metaphor to describe a series of...are you ready?...complex FUNCTIONAL INTERRELATIONSHIPS in the body, in the world, etc.; it is not a "thing" that exists discreetly in one manifestation, as does, say, oxygen or electricity; also, qi/function is really one half of the equation - the other half is STRUCTURE: the medium through which the function, well, functions; like the song says, you can't have one without the other; soooo, if we consider the interrelationsip of structure and function, (or energy / matter) now we are somewhere more familiar - in TCM, when the talk about qi, they are talking about the functional component of, for example, the various organs; this metaphor encomapasses many things: physiology: the actual movement of fluid, e.g., through the system (blood, lymph, cerebrospinal, gastric, etc.); physics: how is energy (not mystical voodoo, but actual energy from a physics perspective, meaning work, or the capacity to do work) transmitted through a structure - is it impeded, and to what degree? - so, good "alignment" within the context of an hospitable environment (e.g. - relatively loose muscles/connective tissue/joints - "sung" to the internal folk) will provide most efficient transfer of something like ground reaction force, which is a functional entity, and so you can absorb and "bounce" someone's kinetic energy back at them, and if they are rigid, it will move them for you;

so, it's fine to talk about qi, but if you think it's about sending waves of Pokemon-like zap-blasts across the room...yeesh; but if you are talking about the Gestalt of good biomechanics, optimized structure, proper timing, etc. etc., then you can talk about qi; remeber that Chinese is NOT a literalistic language - it is pictographic, or allegorical, or metaphorical - one character can contain multiple layers of meaning, and ambiguity is actually a quality sought after in a way, because it approaches the reality of life such as it is; so, if you are looking for a "thing" to measure for qi, well, you can measure heart rate, respiration, liver function, renal function, muscle strength etc. etc. - these are all perfectly reasonable manifestations of function n the body; and, I wouldn't call it a theory either - a theory is a proposition designed to quantify/qualify an observed phenomenon in absence of any other reasonable explanation: you can apply Newton's theories of thermodynamics to energy and matter as defined by physics, but to apply it by qi - it's apples and lichees;

[Pilot]

Earthdragon:

Yes I agree with the premise of your post. They are very true (although demeaning in their deliverance) points. I have been through college (engineering) and I was able to grasp the subject.

Let me narrow my topic to the physical aspect of Chi. I am interested in Chi when describing the physical body and the body’s performance. The mental health included when it is the byproduct of what you put into your body and not a part of a disease (i.e. a clear head).

And um…

but if you think it's about sending waves of Pokemon-like zap-blasts across the room...yeesh

No one has said anything like this.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Qi might better be considered as the effect of good solid training, good discipline and an understanding of the interelationships of bio-mechanical and bio-electrical systems.. to the ancients, Qi appeared mystical.. to us it can be good science..

Be well..

[cbishop]

"but if you think it's about sending waves of Pokemon-like zap-blasts across the room...yeesh

No one has said anything like this"

then let me be the first...
everyone posting so far seems to be concerned with chi as it relates to the
human body. as i understand it, origional chi in different formations makes
up every thing. intention directs the chi into different combinations sufficient
to supply endless possibilities of physical manifestation.

looking at the taiji, i see binary. and the gua, also binary. chi operating as
on or off, pos or neg, light or void.

recently i've done a bit of reading on string theory.. and oh my god!!!
it presumes the same thing.. small strings of energy vibrating in infinitely different
variations, make up all things physical in the universe. thing is, they can't decide
why the strings behave the way they do. with 'yi' we have a head start.

can our intention direct chi to another person who is physically seperated from us?
i say, "why not?". it's simply a matter of learning how.

master al-walee muhammad has a really good book out on this subject.