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Thread: Shaolin Temple

  1. #1
    Tekarius Guest

    Shaolin Temple?

    Hey guys I just read an article, saying that the monks in the shaolin temple aren't real.

    I was wondering if someone can clear that out?

  2. #2
    tenchi Guest

    China

    You heard of communism right?

    well if you did you would know that they destroy anything in thier path that isn't communist

    really feel bad for the tibetians that are in exil from communist china

  3. #3
    kull Guest
    In area of shaolin temple in Song San, there is a Wushu school that are not monks and is government runned. Many foriegn ppl. who go there to train, train at this school. Then there is the temple, who have monks who practice buddhism and MA, and also monks who just train in MA, and not buddhism.
    It is hard to tell, but the real shaolin monks practice buddhism.

    China is just a communist gov't in name, it is hardly communist like former Soviet Union. There is no "banning" of any religious belief, except for Fan Lun, which is more like a cult, and also claiming Tibet as its own.

  4. #4
    reemul Guest

    Shaolin

    The Shaolin Masters left the Shaolin Monastary
    between 1928-1933. What they left was only fragments of knowledge and Contemporary Wushu practioners have resided there since.

    Being a Monk does not make your kungfu, Shaolin kungfu. There may be monks there, but shaolin kungfu left with the masters.

  5. #5
    Taijimantis Guest

    I think I should make it clear...

    That broad statemants about what people think is "communism" are very misleading. The form of Government China has is not communism, but an opressive police state with a powerful ruling class imposing their ideals on the people, thus ensuring their power.

    True communism is potentially a wonderful thing, and according to Mark could only successfully take place in countries that are extremely technologically advanced. In fact I believe he picked Germany and the United States as the countries likely to successfully apply communism.

    I am a socialist, and I am firmly against what the Chinese Government has done, and continues to do. But I also am harassed quite often by people preaching the "evils of communism" because of examples like China and the former Soviet Union.

    But you are right in saying that the Chinese Government has interfered in everything, practically destroying their countries own history and heretige.

    Namaste.

  6. #6
    DrunkenMonkey Guest
    Fifty years ago while Hong Kong was under British Control, my grandfather could hang non-china flags outside his flower business' shop. If he still lived today, he would be forced to pull the flags out of sight or fear imprisonment.

    Go to China and go on any internet service. Try to go to a site that stresses democracy. What do you see? 404, buddy. We may have filters here at our schools, but the Chinese Government has their internet providers filter out most of the things on the internet that oppose what they enforce.

    If you are in China, your choice of profession is limited.

    If this isn't communism, I don't know what is.

    Underaged Drunken Monkey

  7. #7
    DrunkenMonkey Guest
    I am not defying "Mark", but the U.S. wouldn't be changing their primary political parties any time soon.

    Lets say I was a socialist trying to run for president. When you get over a certain ammount of votes, the government provides you with something like 10 million in funds and a promised position in the next election even if you lose. This percentage is 5 percent. That may seem miniscule, but its a lot.

    And no matter what you say, a campaign won't win without some bad ass funds. I am not sure what the figures bush and gore used, but they are well into the 8-figures.

    The only way communism would be successful is if its principles were slowly sewn in into our current parties and then democracy would be phased out over many years.

    Underaged Drunken Monkey

  8. #8
    Chameleon Guest
    The form of Government China has is not communism, but an opressive police state with a powerful ruling class imposing their ideals on the people, thus ensuring their power.

    As an opponent of communism/socialism, I believe this is the inevitable result of a communist system.

    Whether China is actually communist is another matter...

    But a main beef that anti-communists have is that communism, through centralized economic planning, inevitably leads to an accumulation of power among the planners (i.e. the ruling class), who inevitably limit the freedoms of the citizens in an effort to ensure their continued power.

    Communists have great difficulty reconciling the fact that this accumulation of power has happened in all communist countries.

    In the real world, communism hasn't worked well. Since there aren't any successes to point to, communists typically assert that communism has never been properly implemented.

    But I also am harassed quite often by people preaching the "evils of communism" because of examples like China and the former Soviet Union.

    I believe that true communism will always result in an accumulation of power among centralized economic planners, leading to massive corruption, and economic instability for the people.

    Communism is, IMO, based on a false premise that major rifts will inevitably form between classes in a capitalist system. This isn't necassarily the case. Capitalism has proven that wealth distribution can follow fairly evenly with upper class, upper-middle class, middle class, lower middle class, and lower class.

    It isn't a struggle between the haves and the have nots. It is a distribution, with the majority being in the middle class, and whereby people can move between classes throughout their lifetimes and throught generations.

    I'm not saying that pure capitalism is the proper alternative to pure communism. But I am saying that a capitalist system with democratic social controls produces a morally superior result than the system Marx envisioned.

  9. #9
    Chameleon Guest
    The only way communism would be successful is if its principles were slowly sewn in into our current parties and then democracy would be phased out over many years.

    IMO. communism will never fly in the United States, absent a major revolution and the abolishment of the US Constitution.

    Some principles have been sewn into our society with mixed results. Welfare didn't work out so well, social security did. Both borrow on principles of communism.

    So I think you're right in the broad sense, that we can adopt some principles that allieviate class divisions and poverty.

    But I don't think we can gradually move to the elimination of private property, absent major chaos.

    The US constitution is rooted in protecting individual freedoms, including property rights. Communism is rooted in eliminating class strife throgh the elimination of individual property rights. I don't think they are really compatible at all.

  10. #10
    old jong Guest

    Shaolin?

    Whatever the name,political injustice has always the same results;misery,non respect for liberty and life in general.
    As for these "shaolin kung-fu monks"Well... they may attract some tourisme.Circus is in town! :eek:

    C'est la vie!

  11. #11
    ShaolinMantis Guest

    Monks

    from what I was told by people who have been there:

    The "shaolinsi" there is akin to learning Kung Fu sets; you can learn the "outside" and look good "dancing", you have to "prove" yourself before learning the "inner" parts, higher levels.

    The "public" areas of the Mainland China Shaolin temples are the "outside" of the forms. Hired Monks, small skilled, paid fronts. In order to access the "real" Monks, Kung Fu, masters, warrior monks, one has to be admitted to the "inner" parts of the temple.

    In short: who you know.

    ShaolinMantis-I

  12. #12
    kull Guest
    I agree with ShaolinMantis, as i said b4 in my previous post, there is the outside wushu school runned by government for tourism and the real Temple which has buddhist monks, some which practice kungfu.

    About China and communism, i won't get into that cause i am not talking about politics, but i would like to ask how many ppl. actually been to China or Shaolin?

  13. #13
    Tekarius Guest
    Ok let me get this straight

    They banned the Shaolin Temple because of communism. But why didn't they banned the Budhist temple?

  14. #14
    kull Guest
    During Mao Tse Tung rule and the Cultural Revoulution many things were banned including kungfu and destroyed, but after Deng Xiao Ping and the current leadership very few religious faiths, are banned except the one i mentioned b4.

  15. #15
    Taijimantis Guest

    Communism...

    Check your definitions of communism people. I was tempted to dust off the communist manifesto, and start placing some anti-capitalist propoganda up online, but I figured I had better wait for my shipment of ak-47's to arrive...

    As I said, I do not agree with what is happening in China.
    And Just so you know, Marx said the only way Communism was going to be able to be implimented was through revolution, preferrably non-violent, but by ANY means possible.

    I am not asking any of you to vote socialist. Jesus, it wasnt a statement against America I made or any such nonsense. I was a Marine, I served America for eight years. I have earned the right to voice my political mind. weather you like communism or not, it is a valid political philosophy. If you want to go far bac enough Socrates said that the ONLY government system that would work is the City state ruled by a philosopher king.

    You think America is free? I could site pages of things that should be entirely up to the individual that the government misleads citizens into thinking they have no choice on.
    The idea here is to put aside your stereotypes and stop being so ethnocentric. Here we place the utmost value on individual human rights. In other parts of the world (Asia in perticular) the rights of individuals tend to be based more on how they fit into a society as a whole. Neither way is "better" or "correct" just different.

    We tend to think and pass jugement on other places based on our own set of American morals and values.

    What is happening in China and Tibet is an atrocity. No doubt about it something has to be done. The murder, rape and plunder of entire nations cannot be allowed by any means. You cannot blame a philosophy on corrupt officials, because we have them here as well.

    In America we are just not as open about it.

    "I am not a crook..."
    "I did not have sex with that woman... s. Lewinski..."

    We are so ready to pass judgement on the ideals of others when they are not in alighnment with our own.

    Thankfully I do not care a bit about what others think of my politics.
    :D I dont threaten anyones freedom, and I encourage people to do what they have to do to ensure what they feel is right.

    I didnt intend for my statement to be a foundation for a political joust. I just want people to check their history and sociology texts. Make sure you know what you are throwing rocks at before you let go.

    I was simply making an observation that the Chinese government is not in fact Marx's idea of a true communist state.

    Love me or hate me for it. It makes no difference.

    Shantih.

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