Shaolin Temple

[r.(shaolin)]

Kung Lek wrote:

>The seperation of religious and martial monks occured in the late 1300's with the installation of the Ming dynasty. The distinction was made deeper with the incoming Ching dynasty in 1644.<

The first tangible record of a distinct 'warrior monk' rank at Shao Lin Si goes back much further back than that.

Emperor Tia Zong granted Shao Lin Si the legal right to maintain a defensive army of monks at Shao Lin Si. The record of this decree is on a stone stele written in the Imperial script and dates to approximately 620 A.D..

This decree had far reaching implication on subsequent dynasties and Emperors.E

[GeneChing]

YF: Sure solving intellectual puzzles is fun, but solving them with hearsay is unsatisfactory. Yet, I certainly empathize with a sloppy retrieval system - my library has been a shambles since I moved and that was 2 years ago. I was curious to clarify your statements since you raised some interesting points.
The forest symbolism - do you mean the three trees of buddhism? Banyan, for Buddha's birth, bodhi for his enlightement, and something else for his death - alas, there is my sloppy retrieval system of memory. You know, here's some trivia, there is a cutting of that death tree at Yongtai nunnery next to Shaolin. Allegedly that was the first Buddhist nunnery condoned by the emperor and the only cutting of that tree in China (but then they also claim a relic of Buddha, which I don't beleive yet.) I'm still not sure how this fits into "young forest". I'll have to look up that dhamra talk, was it the first one at Deer Park?

Many of the things you mention seem more parallel to me than linear. Surely, qi and prana are similar, but I feel it is an oversimplification to say they are connected. You can't map meridians on chakras and nadis successfully. things like Kali>Chenrizig>Tara or Avalokiteshavara>Kuanyin>Kannon are linear and easy to validify. But the 108, now there's a big chicken & egg problem. My daughter's name is Tara by the way, so this strikes close to my heart :)

Now I'm not sure about the Indian bourgeoisie, but the scant Indian research always seemed much more fruitful than the Chinese. It is an extremely scholarly culture. The very concept that the Mahabharata was an oral tradition for centuries, and yet little deviation was seen across even to modern day, is astounding. In contrast, China was where we developed the slang "chinese whispers." I find this so evident in CMA.

I enjoy your writing Joy (loved your last submission to us in NOV/DEC 2001, BTW) but I probably don't have that old IKF. Could you send me a copy via email. I would prefer to read your unedited version
:)

r (s) et.al. As for gov't subterfuge, sometimes I think this is a separation of church and state issue we have in the US. It can be very positive. Since we are discussing India & Buddhism, think of Ashoka.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[joy chaudhuri]

A partial reply:
I have one of those machines for emailing documents but without number 2 son I am lost on how to use it. I will probably send you a xerox copy of the IKF article on 108.The issue of the chicken or the egg should disappear once you read it.There is not only the number theory, the myths
and rituals related to the Indian side but ancient astronomy as well.
There was once near Loyang a whole colony of Indian astronomers(Needham: Science and Civilization in China)) in order to share with the Chinese their calculations of eclipses-specailly what in babylon came to be known as the saros cycle. The prana/chi analogy right now is linear but the yoga breath/mind control in the Buddhist transmission is more direct.
The Young Forest symbolism really has to do with a
neaby forest referred to in one of Siddhartha's sermons. My memory fails me right now. It is not just the general banyan tree analogy.
Asokha really applied religious freedom and tolerance in his time to all the many diverse religions and sects around in his time...and tolerance for cultural and linguistic diversity
as well.You know that Asokha's world extended into Afghanistan as well.
Tara is a beautiful name, Best wishes for your daughter. You know I am sure that Boddhidharma's teacher's name was Prajna-Tara. Best, Joy

[r.(shaolin)]

Gene Ching wrote:
>As for gov't subterfuge, sometimes I think this is a separation of church and state issue we have in the US.<

Hi Gene. Actually by "subterfuge aside" I was referring to the Southern Buddhist /Hung Moon resistance to the Qing.
I think that is what Kung Lek is taking about. In the south, a number of monasteries (and this was mostly in the south) and Buddhist monks were supporters of the Hung Moon. This was a revolutionary political grassroots organization which opposed to the Manchu /Qing Imperial government.
During this period the Hung Moon split into three sections so to speak. The Hung Bong - responsible for overall control and responsible for recruitment.
The Qing Bong - often ex-military men in disguise as Buddhist monks. Their prime function ws to teach martial arts in the temples.
and the third, Buck Lin - these were the spies of the organization. Also under the appearance of monks, they served as conveyors of information
and raised funds.a

[r.(shaolin)]

Gene Ching wrote:
>Since we are discussing India & Buddhism, think of Ashoka.<

Ashoka conquering Kalinga after a very bloody war in which a 100,000 were killed, 150,000 injured and thousands more were captured and enslaved. .
. . . . Redemption does not come easily : - (

I'm leaving for the mountains to meditate.to

[This message was edited by r.(shaolin) on 11-09-01 at 08:12 PM.]

[South Paw]

E.B. Vermeer, Development and decline of Fukien Province in the 17th and 18th Centuries, Sinica Leidensia, Vol. XXII, Leiden/New York 1990

This book is good reading for those who are interested in the situation of the temples in Fukien during this time. There is also some about the resistance movement against the Qing.

South Paw

[Yum Cha]

R (shaolin)
Thanks for the clue on the Hung Moon. That meets most closely with the story of my Sifu, concerning the genesis of the Pak Mei legend. The quality of the discussion is well beyond this, but thanks for the tidbit. A thread to unravel...

South Paw, thanks for the citation. Looks interesting.

[GeneChing]

yf: I'll look forward to that FAX - no hurry - just make sure it's to my attention or it might not get to my desk.
That Indian Loyang astronomy connect is great. I'll have to explore that a little further. Where they involved with Gaocheng observatory in Dengfeng?
There's a huge Indian community here in Fremont, near the office. I keep seeing posters for a pop movie on Ashoka. Do you know if it's any good (I'm interested in entertainment value as much as schoalrly content.)
And yes I knew the Prajnatara connect, although we hadn't thought about it in choosing her name - we picked Tara because it was the Irish Hill of Kings as much as for the Buddhist deity.

r(s): Sorry, I completely misread you about subterfuge. Given that point, my post was irrelevant.
As for Ashoka, few political leaders escape history with no blood on their hands. My comment was more specific to Buddhist culture than redemption.

Gene Ching
Asst. Publisher
Kungfu Qigong Magazine & www.KUNGFUmagazine.com

[shaolintemple]

Shaolin Temple is probably the most famous temple in China, not only because of its long history and its role in Chinese Buddhism, but also because of its martial arts or Wushu Chan. Shaolin Temple is situated in the beautiful Songshan Mountains, which is only eight miles of Dengfeng and about 50 miles southwest of Zhengzhou, the capital of Henan Province.
Shaolin Temple was established in 495 during the Northern Wei Dynasty (386-534). Batuo, an Indian monk, came to Luoyang, the ancient capital, for spreading Buddhism at that period. Emperor Xiaowen was a believer of Buddhism so he decided to build the temple in the Songshan Mountains to house Batuo, who translated many Buddhist works and had a few hundred followers there.

Damo (Bodhidharma), the legendary Indian monk, came to Shaolin in 517, who was the creator of Chinese Zen. There are many legendary stories about him. One of the well-known stories says he was meditating in a cave for nine years. The cave is now called Damo Cave. Many people believe he wrote the famous 'Yijinjing,' the base of Shaolin martial arts or Kung fu. But there is no record about the book before and during the Tang Dynasty (618-907) so experts think Damo has little to do with Shaolin Kung fu. Zongheng, a Taoist priest of Tiantai Mountain, wrote 'Yijinjing' in 1624, but to add mystery to it, he made up a story saying 'Yijinjing' was originally written by Damo.

Shaolin does have a long tradition of Chinese martial arts, as the saying goes 'All martial arts (Kung fu) are from Shaolin.' This is partly because Shaolin was located in a strategic area so they had to protect the temple themselves from wars or any invading, and partly because of the support of most emperors from different dynasties, which came after the 13 Shaolin monks once saved Li Shimin, the emperor of the Tang Dynasty (618-907). Since then Shaolin was allowed to have solider-monks. During the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), Shaolin housed over 1,000 solder-monks at its peak and they were often used by the government to combat rebellions and Japanese bandits. But martial arts were forbidden during the Qing Dynasty (1644-1911). Even with the protection of solder-monks, Shaolin was severely damaged by fire a few times. The largest fire set by the army of Shi Yousan in 1928 destroyed most of the buildings of Shaolin Temple.

There are many noted relics at Shaolin. There are over 300 ancient stone inscriptions, some of them by famous calligraphers. The large mural of 500 arhats in the Qianfo Hall was from the Ming Dynasty. There are 232 pagodas from different dynasties, known as the forest of pagodas. The oldest one was from the Tang Dynasty. The pagodas are the tombs of the celebrated Shaolin monks. The Shaolin martial arts are an important part of the relics.

[ngokfei]

A surprising find at my parents house. I forgot I had done a Shaolin Temple Signboard while I was a student of Shi guo Lin back in 1998. A bit dusty and banged up being in the garage for almost 14 years