Distance Power

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

C'mon mary,
You wouldn't know gongfu if it bit you bit you on the azz. BTW what kind of wine goes with deep fried hand?
.

green mountain brand ha kai da bu jiao. otherwise known as "kung fu wine".

[YuanZhideDiZhen]

Greetings..

YuanZhideDiZhen: I will tell you what i was told by Chan Pui.. His teacher was Lee Kwan Shan, and after Lee's death he continued the Hua Lin (Wah Lum) system with his older kung fu brother, Chan Wan Ching.. I have seen the photos, read the accounts, and held some of the weapons handed down from Lee.. Chan Pui's CLF connection was through Lee Koon Hung, his friend.. not his mentor..
.

okay, this is good. now we have some negotiating to do. first an explanation: i have been doing ethnohistory on the unrecorded histories of chinese martial arts. this takes some trolling.

there is no record of a Lee Kwan Shan before 1972. it appears as part of a story rendered to yong chun stylists in 1963 when two old men came to them for training. the yong chun stylists relate the story to reporters in 1972. can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

GM Chan Pui's lineage and record are published and well known.. YuanZhideDiZhen has challenged the validity of GM Chan's words.. as challenger it is upon Yuan to produce verifiable evidence.. so i ask again:

Are you prepared to defend such claims with evidence, undeniable evidence? i don't mean "he said/she said", i mean undeniable evidence.. publications, photos, historic accounts, etc...

He replies:

i have been doing ethnohistory on the unrecorded histories of chinese martial arts. this takes some trolling.... can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?.

He challenges with empty assertions, no evidence, and then, trying to slip the responsibility to back-up his claims, he requests documentation of a well known, well respected Master.. Yuan, divulge your identity, your teacher, and your lineage.. you know who i am and Chan Pui's identity is well known.. you disgrace yourself by challenging from a concealed position.. do the honorable thing, apologize and retreat into obscurity..

okay, this is good. now we have some negotiating to do.

No, this is not a negotiation.. you have challenged the reputation of a well respected CMA Master.. back it up, or back down.. save the unverifiable stories for bed-time.. post verifiable information, or admit your ignorance..

Be well..

[Dale Dugas]

Yuan is nothing but a total coward.

TJB, He posts whatever he feels like as he hides behind his computer. He has no skills nor understands what being human is about.

He claimed to know me, and then slandered me after I PMed him as you cannot email him. That would be able to be traced and we could find where this yellow bellied ass clown lives.

Step up Yuan. TJB and I are waiting. You seem to be too much like Vasquez now son. You sure your not the same deluded individual?

This will not be going away son. You do not post crap about me and then expect me to walk away. Nor can Taijibob when you name masters, and slander them as well.

I am waiting you coward.

Dale Dugas

[Buddy]

Wait, this jamoke is trying to say Mr. Chan is really a wing chun guy? What a maroon, what a gulli-bull. Yoon you make all azzclowns of the world cringe in their dunce chairs that you are even considered one of them. But one of them, indeed. When you come to take your beating from Dale, I'll take seconds.

[Dale Dugas]

Buddy,

Another no name, no email addy, no balls fool who spouts all kinds of things out his rear, and seems to do it for the pure sake of inciting riots.

Hmm, sounds like Vasquez's butt boy Yuan to me...

Step up Yuan, Buddy and I are waiting to hear from you.

Dale

[Ou Ji]

there is no record of a Lee Kwan Shan before 1972. it appears as part of a story rendered to yong chun stylists in 1963 when two old men came to them for training. the yong chun stylists relate the story to reporters in 1972. can you give me some supporting documents that he indeed was a real and registered person in china, tai shan provence circa 1940-1960?

Registered person in China? Most of the ones still alive don't have birth certificates or any documentation let alone a guy that died in 1948.

You want proof he existed? Check out his picture on their website.

[Yamesk]

My goodness, did the fists start flying after page 3...


Alright, question; if Distance Power is not possible, what about touching someone with your hands if they were filled with chi? Could this cause damage, or could chi perhaps make your punches do a bit more damage than usual to an opponent?

Forgive my ignorance, but the concept of Chi in general has always interested me as well as its combat application. So far the only application of Chi I know is the "kiah."

I'm not trolling when I say this, I'm sincerely looking for answers to these questions.

As for ye who are flaming one another, come on guys.. let's try to get along, okay?

[Buddy]

LooK dude,
Qi is life force. How much do you have? Does it make a difference? Sure. How vital are you? Someone sick with cancer can't jump up their life force. I've been there. But if you train well you can kick start your qi. Then you have to train for martial arts.. or meditation or healing or what ever. The training is the same. But yoon is a h-mo joke

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Yamesk,

You will have to let these flamers work it out between themselves. It is something that happens frequently and you can't stop it even when it is beyond the topic of the thread! A Bulletin Board (BB) is like a free for all, everyone thinks they know what they are talking about and everyone thinks they are right, mostly! Sometimes there are people like you who are truly interested in learning, but mostly people come here to play or antagonize each other. There develops social alliances just like in the real world and people tend to gang up on each other too. The anonymity of the pseudonyms tends to make some individuals more vocal and less courteous than they would be in the real world with social conventions and shame to control their behavior. As you attend to the boards you will find those who seem to make sense and know something worth sharing and those who pretend. But first appearances can be deceiving too! Try to be patient and don’t get involved unless you are prepared to get knocked around a little bit. I participate once in a while myself when I am bored, but know when to give up. That is the key! Many individuals are like rabid dogs and won't stop until you decide to bow out!

One of the favorite means of ridicule is to label someone a troll. This occurs when one person doesn’t like the perspective of someone else, can't get the accused to agree with them and can't formulate an effective response. Then the postings devolve into a form of name calling. This is when the discussion is no longer worth your participation, unless you just like to mix it up for awhile. Try not to expect too much maturity from the others here. Not that there are not adults to interact with, but just understand you could be reading the postings of 15 year old with no real knowledge who sounds like a wise master on the one hand, but also a 50 year old with 30 or 40 years experience on the other who sounds just as bright, but also actually knows what he is talking about!

LOL!! But then again you could also read postings from 50 year olds with 30 or 40 years experience who dont know a hill of beans too!! So buyer beware!!

As to your question:

Chi can be defined in a number of different ways. You will find some disagreement on what it is specifically. It is more easily understood by its effects. But what some consider the effects of Chi can also be explained by other phenomena. Since most proofs concerning it are anecdotal and have very little scientific validation one could say Chi exists and has effects because we believe it does. Having said this it is best to learn or investigate for yourself and determine for yourself. Keep an open mind and understand that the human mind will allow you to see evidence when you want to see evidence, but it will make you also ignore evidence that doesn’t fit in with your preconceived notions as well. Our preconceived notions are the blinders we must learn to see beyond!

The bigger question should be: what is your ultimate purpose or goal? If it is to learn and grow that is one endeavor that will bring you benefits whether you actually confirm Chi for yourself or not. If it is to learn seemingly magical abilities that allow you to defend yourself and others, that is unlikely to occur. Even if these abilities are possible it is doubtful you will be fortunate enough to find a real instructor and if you find one your chances of actually developing these abilities is pretty low. I am not attempting to discourage you if this is what you are wishing for; I am merely adding some realistic perspective to the goal. Many effects attributed to Chi are not so fantastic once one understands the techniques or trick of it, so to speak. It is like learning a card trick. Once you know how it is done it loses its fascination and miraculous quality. It is no longer as romantic and mysterious as once thought. If I know a trick and don’t tell you how I am able to perform it then I have a sense of mystery to you and consequently I have a certain amount of power over you as well. That is to my advantage. I may charge you to learn my secrets, or I may just let you worship at my feet!

There are techniques that involve applying pressure to specific points of the body. These points contain nerves, tendons, veins and arteries. It is the manipulation of these physical points that, when applied properly, may disable an opponent. These techniques are worth learning, but will rarely be necessary or appropriate to perform under most self-defense conditions. It is really the grosser actions of punching and kicking that are the most effective.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

It's just like Scott.. perfect timing and reasoned wisdom.. okay, back to the topic..

Given the history of Qi, it is not surprising that the "science" of those that first conceived the notion of Qi considered it "mystical".. just as today, Qi as described by 2,000 year old texts, is elusive and without verifiable measurement.. but, as Scott suggests, there are observable effects that can fit the concept of Qi.. My own perspective is a blend of ancient notions and modern science.. i sense that there are forces at play that we can't yet pigeon-hole into a neat definition.. that there are recent developments in quantum and particle physics that allow for certain of those ancient notions to be accepted in theory.. while i am greatly intrigued by the concept of Qi, the disciplines for cultivating and harnessing Qi, and a sincere student of its potential.. i am also pragmatic.. Rather than search for "mystical fireballs" and such, i rely on those aspects of Qi which i have either experienced or can accept as rational potential.. (mind you, each of our standards for "rational" will differ)..

Energy, life-force, bio-electricity, etc... all valid notions that can account for the attributes of Qi.. suppose scientists collect exactly the correct elements, compounds and substances that comprise the make-up of a human being.. suppose further that they can assemble these to replicate the human body.. now, still, the assembled body is missing something, it is not "alive".. from my perspective, it is simply energy.. now, that energy may be applied in many ways, but.. there appears to be some cosmic connection beyond the scope of modern science in the dispensing and allocation of just the right proportions of energies to animate this fabricated body into a living being.. somehow, there seems to be a "mechanism" that makes these allocations and distributes energies appropriately to create "life" as we know it.. some people worship the mechanism as forms of dieties, or they assign it philosophical attributes, or.. they just don't know, but.. it seems clear to me that there are forces beyond our current level of comprehension that coordinate this process, or perhaps simply permit the process to find its own way in the cosmic dance.. physics assures us that the intentions of the observer affect the observation.. so, in observing the effects of energy on the body it stands to reason we can affect that energy with disciplined intentions.. from the perspective of consciousness affecting/effecting energies it seems that consciousness is in some very real way linked to the "mechanism".. so, that is my journey, i try to experience the various ways cultures and beliefs and such attempt to connect the consciousness with the physical experience and the universal experience.. from which, i am currently of the opinion that humans are limited in their scope of existence only by the self-imposed limits of their own perspectives and awarenesses.. that the consciousness, when fully realized, may indeed be able to utilize energies in ways currently considered impossible..

Now, back to my pragmatic side.. mankind's current level of evolution is not likely to produce many "fully realized consciousnesses".. but, each of us can contribute to subsequent generations' quests for "realization".. we can be open-minded, investigative, fearless in our attempts to reach greater consciousness and awareness.. pass these experiences on and build on past experiences.. MA systems, religious systems, philosophical systems, scientific systems, social systems, etc... are patterns of thoughts arranged, maintained and moved forward in the ebb and flow of the lives of people, societies and civilizations.. the effect of humans is a movement of knowledge forward through subsequent generations.. While i might not realize "Distance Power", i will hold open the option for others further along on the evolutionary scale.. maybe my children, maybe my students, maybe some little contribution i make will help someone else.. but, to write it off as impossible is to seal its fate as such.. Still, i train in the physical world, and i benefit from what insights i have gained.. energies are more useful now than before, they can be cultivated and used to enhance every aspect of my MA and my life.. but, dang it, those glowing fireballs of Qi just aren't happening yet..

Be well..

[Ou Ji]

Bob, there is only one. And it's an unbroken chain from parent to child. That's why you can't assemble the components of a human and expect it to come to life. You can only pinch off a piece of life energy (although it's physically separate from you it's still connected to the one life) and enjoy watching it grow and learn.

I am very open minded but extremely skeptical at the same time. Unfortunately for me I'll have to accept the kook label because I personally felt an energy I was told was Qi, just before the hand made contact with my body. Admittedly it was weak and at very close range. I fail to see any martial application based on my experience but I can't discount that it's a possibility. It was stronger once contact was made.

My skepticism is what prompted me to experience it for myself. I was lucky enough to have run into the real deal.

[Zhong Jia]

My skepticism is what prompted me to experience it for myself. I was lucky enough to have run into the real deal.

i've got beer. do tell!

[Zhong Jia]

Greetings..

back it up, or back down.. save the unverifiable stories for bed-time.. post verifiable information, or admit your ignorance..

Be well..

i don't know you and i'm new here but what i see is that you want this yuan person to purchase a magazine and print his version of the truth in it so many times tha any lie he is so brazen as to publish will be accepted as truth? i might as well change my name to Chan Pui....

i can feel sympathy for you having believed what you were told by someone whom you respect. but understand kungfu is like religion: there are as many truths as there are styles/religions. each master requires a sort of cult of personality to be successful. just be honest with yourself: you bought what was in an entertainment magazine and took it for truth. like the people whom watched orris and hazel and thought that it was real life. the stories are made to sell magazines. the stories told to the magazine reporters are changed slightly so that the magazine can own what it publishes. chan pui happens to own three kungfu related magazines and has controlling or speaking interest in most that even remotely cover kung fu. one group of reporters was fired for attempting to publish the truth about him. they started thier own magazine which was eventually bought out by tiger claw. do some homework.

[_William_]

Interesting how a "new poster" shares the same grammatical structure and style as YuanZhideDeZhen, eh?