Gou Lou Cai

[-N-]

Wow, Infinite Monkey Style. When you fight you just randomly execute all the moves you know and eventually something will end the fight.

Hehehe... you invented a new style. I like it! Cool name too

N.

[Oso]

ok, so...what is everyone's opinion of the formation of the 12 key words into their recognized groupings?

It seems that if the 12 keywords weren't meant to be analyzed separately, then they wouldn't have come to be called '12 keywords' but, what, like '6 key words'

'gou lou cai' is grouped as one thing
'gua' is usually looked at alone, right?
all the others are generally paired in every iteration i've read....which isn't many.

[mantisben]

It seems that if the 12 keywords weren't meant to be analyzed separately, then they wouldn't have come to be called '12 keywords' but, what, like '6 key words'

Man, I totally agree!

[K.Brazier]

Oso,
Remember that 12 keywords for 7* and Meihua have some radical differences.
So you have to put yourself in a bit of a different frame of mind when looking at them.
In Meihua for the form Luanjie you see the words coming up individually coupled with the offensive move.

of ti na feng bi-raising, grasping, sealing, closing grouping.

Lifting is followed by cleaving, by shoulder rib strike etc
sealing followed by backfist -feng beng.
closing followed by palm strike to heart.

also, in this form are other keywords such as

Tiao(also means lifting) bao- lift and hug-followed by right coiling elbow
Gou-as in left hooking right straight punch.

as well as other terms.

Furthermore, to make matters more confuing, there is a more complete listing of keywords in outline of short strikes. It contains 24 keywords and there definitions.
Through other sources I have found this in Ching dynasty manuscript for weapons usage.

So it, like 8 Hard and 12 soft first appear as principles for weapons.

[Oso]

oh, i'm not taking anything for granted...the intent of the thread was to start some discussion of the differences...with you and Robert being the most vocal contributors I'm glad you're posting. Would love to see Shifu Profatilov or Shifu Tunks post.....

I don't know the differences...I know there are differences between 7* and Plum Flower...I can feel that easily simply by playing our Bung Bu and that first road of Ba Kui...defining those differences is what I'm after.

[libingshao]

ok, so...what is everyone's opinion of the formation of the 12 key words into their recognized groupings?

It seems that if the 12 keywords weren't meant to be analyzed separately, then they wouldn't have come to be called '12 keywords' but, what, like '6 key words'

'gou lou cai' is grouped as one thing
'gua' is usually looked at alone, right?
all the others are generally paired in every iteration i've read....which isn't many.

Oso,

In my limited experience the twelve are both singular and paired. gou lou cai are three ideas but I have heard the three called cai shou for short and then again I have seen them expressed by the same person separately. They are after all ideas and not simply single techniques. Once you leave the single technique idea behind, it seems limited only by the training and insight of the practitioner.

Libingshao