Martial and or Art?

[rfbrown3]

I have recently been visiting some of the CMA schools in my are (Dallas). On another forum I was asked if I knew what I was looking for, and I had to admit that I was really unsure, but did want to find something that my aging out of shape body could handle and something I could practice the rest of my life as long as I am physically able. I have narrowed my choices down to Ysing-Yi Quan, Hung Gar, and Wing Chun.

Visiting a Wing Chun class the other night, one of the associate instructors and I disucssed how differently MAs are taught and practiced in various schools. I made the comment that I had the impression some of the schools I had visited were really into performance, mainly conentrating on agility and forms, but hardly practiced any kind of real life applications, at least not until more advanced levels. This instructor stated that he did not agree with that approach and that it was important to him to include sparring, two man forms, and even floor techniques in how they teach Wing Chun in their school.

I had to agree with this instructor, but I also feel that the opposite end of the spectrum is not what I am looking for either, that is, I do not want to practice whatever Martial Art I take up as simply learning to win a fight at all cost. What I am looking for therefore is a BALANCE, a Martial Art that is practiced with an empahsis on both the Martial aspects as well as an Art form which will procduce health benefits for both my body and mind as I grow older. I realize that my descriptions here are sort of an oversimplification and that there are many gray areas and that it is not always an either or situation.

However my question to everyone here is, how is Wing Chun practiced and taught in your schools? Do you fell Wing Chun is a MA that offers that kind of balance? Yeah, I know that it depends on how it is taught, but how does Wing Chun compare to other CMAs that you know of in this respect?

BTW I was really impressed with this school and their instructors:
www.combatwc.com
http://www.authentickungfudallas.com/wc.php

The bad thing (or I guess it is good thing actually) is that I have really been impressed by three different schools (Hung Gar, Ysing-Yi and now this Wing Chun school) in my area now and I just have to decide on which one I want to start with.

Thanks,

RFB

[OdderMensch]

Since i got to the main school in Fort Worth. One thing that I have learned form going to many schools in the area, several tournments and a fair few websites is that there are two major aprouchs to teaching the martial arts. One I call form collection. The students learn form after form, term after term and drill upon drill with little or no practical study. the other, oppositte aprouch is to teach a few simple things, then toss on some gear and hit the sparring matt. Both methods have their ups and downs but in my hhumble opinion, niether is the right way to go, both fall into extremism.

Our school has always been strict on combat, fighting pure and simple. A six month student should, with due dillagence and training, be able to handle themselves in most any situation. But there is depth to the training as well. I'm well into year five with a few more to go and I am only now scratching beneath the surface of my Kung Fu.

I know my forms, the therums behind the movements and bits of the culture and history. I have also spared both inside and away from my school and system, my teacher always encorages us to 'touch hands' at any given opurtunity.

One neat thing about us, we also have a Mantis class. One look at the two schools shows well the diffence between the systems is more than superficial. Of course at the end of the day a punch is a punch and a kick is a kick. But a good education in kung fu should teach skills beyond brawlling and above forms.


<<<note>>> I'll try and run this thru spell check tommorow, bear with me till then please

[sihing]

My belief is that you get out of it what you want out of it. As a by product, you will learn how to fight and be combat effective (with enough practice and training time put in, combined with consistency) against most fighters out there. If you want to truly be effective against all comers in combat, WC has that to offer, since this is the primary reason for it's creation, but the health, philisophical, spiritual aspects can all be found and realized with training in WC. Personally I just liked the learning/training aspect first and then later realized the teaching part was where it was at for me. There's nothing like sharing something close to your soul that is useful for another human being to learn, and seeing them progress through it and actual learn something from you that is useful in all aspects of life.

James

[YongChun]

From my experience in Hung style, I would say it's very difficult to learn quality Hung style when you are older. The real stuff involves a lot of stance training so that eventually you can do fast and powerful forms where each position is very precise. If you wrists for example are not very flexible then various hand positions just don't look any good. Without the right body type, conditioning, flexibility and proper fundamentals the forms will look like an elephant trying to do ballet. This image is fresh in my mind because I have just seen a few people in their 20's who has studied Hung style and it just didn't compare to someone I know who has studied it from age 5 to age 20. With all that training it gets you to the start of learning to apply this art. However if you are less critical about looks or happen to be quite talented then Hung style is a fabulous art with it's various forms and many kinds of weapons. Hung style can be put into a practical form as well and just depends on the teacher ot the student later going out to get his own experience in usage. One of my Hung style classmates spent quite a few years sparring all kinds of other arts after he had a thorough grounding in Hung style and so was able to apply much of what he learned. I think Hung style is a very classical beautiful art which takes a solid 10 years of training before it is good. From my experience, I have seen someone who has a good body (right proportions and fitness level) and trained a five hours every day do justice to the art in three years. At that time this student was 13 years old. The characterisitics of that student were that every posture was picture perfect and every movement had his full body power behind it and every movement was incredibly fast. The core of it all was in the stance and leg training. When my Hung style teacher turned 68, he mentioned that he probably should have switched to Tai Chi somewhere along the way. Unless you keep up Hung style everyday, it is difficult to keep it up. Imagine doing a 100 meter run. Our Hung style forms always felt like you are doing that. This kind is difficult to keep up.

I think Wing Chun can be a balanced approach to the martial art you are looking for. Actually so can Tai Chi and Arnis/Escrima. In the end it is just what suits your personality. I would go back and look some more at the three schools. Hsing I also has a very good reputation. I think Wing Chun is the simplest of the choices but mastery in any of the three will probably take an equal amount of time.

Maybe you need to really pin down your criteria or reasons for learning these arts. Do you think someday to teach these arts? Is the lineage deep enough to teach you completely before you turn 100? Is the cost reasonable. Do the students at each school and the teacher appeal to you? Is it convenient to get to class - good location? Imagine yourself doing each art. Can you see yourself as a Hung style fighter, a Hsing I fighter or a Wing Chun fighter?

If you make a wrong choice, you can always switch. Every martial arts experience is useful. It is useful to know more than one.

Ray

[stonecrusher69]

I have to agree with YoungChun Hung style for a middle aged guy probably is not the best choice.It's great if your young and you have all that energry.Hsing I also does alot of stanced training as well ,but its a much softer style and probably easier on the body.Wing Chun is a good chioce for any age I think.

[anerlich]

Hsing I also does alot of stanced training as well ,but its a much softer style and probably easier on the body

I agree with this, except for Xingyi dragon stepping, which will stress your knees like nothing else on this planet. Imagine a plyometric one-legged squat.

[lawrenceofidaho]

Maybe you need to really pin down your criteria or reasons for learning these arts. Do you think someday to teach these arts? Is the lineage deep enough to teach you completely before you turn 100? Is the cost reasonable. Do the students at each school and the teacher appeal to you? Is it convenient to get to class - good location? Imagine yourself doing each art. Can you see yourself as a Hung style fighter, a Hsing I fighter or a Wing Chun fighter?

If you make a wrong choice, you can always switch. Every martial arts experience is useful. It is useful to know more than one.

Thanks again for another excellent post, Ray.......

-Lawrence