12 Characters Principle Grouping

[Oso]

-N-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_cracker




but, I'm glad my fumbling with praying mantis kung fu and the chinese language make you laugh

thanks for the definitions.



Luk Luk - Upward circling motion that can be used offensively and/or defensively.

can this be done w/ single as well as double arms?

we have a motion in one of our drills that sounds like this concept. It is basically a quick double gua against a bong, the first one is the initial deflection and the second one sticks and presses upward while the first one continues on to punch to the head from the outside.

Dieu Jeun - Simultaneous intercept and bursting advance.

would this be like the first movement of Bun Bu?

Jim Nim - Touch and stick to neutralize an opponents motions.

ok, that's about 95% of our hand drills.

Tip Kau, Bung Da - Quickly close in tight to press up against the opponent and apply pressuring force with leg/hip/forearm/shoulder/chest to strike/control/throw/unbalance him.

lol, this describes how I teach almost every basic throw we do.

[libingshao]

-N-

I have little to add to the great discussion here. But I have also known of the following:

轆轤 Lulu-Upward single arm circle (with other hand supporting)

到轆轤 Dow Lulu-Downward single arm circle (with other hand supporting).


Libingshao

[Oso]

what plain is the circle of Lu Lu/Luk Luk on in relation to the plane of...say, your shoulders?

I thought it might be like a double gua where the arms are horizontal but it seems like now i see that it is more like two uppercuts??????

or, am i, as usual, way off track here?

[-N-]

Luk Luk - Upward circling motion that can be used offensively and/or defensively.

can this be done w/ single as well as double arms?

we have a motion in one of our drills that sounds like this concept. It is basically a quick double gua against a bong, the first one is the initial deflection and the second one sticks and presses upward while the first one continues on to punch to the head from the outside.

That description is more like the setup for Ding Chi Chui as in the second to last line of Bung Bo. Luk Luk is with the lead arm, and the other hand can assist with a gliding intercept.

Dieu Jeun - Simultaneous intercept and bursting advance.

would this be like the first movement of Bun Bu?

More like the 3rd move with the left hand parry going into palm strike with advancing footwork. Also in the 5th move with Dieu and jump in to single leg with left punch as the person parries your previous motion.

Jim Nim - Touch and stick to neutralize an opponents motions.

ok, that's about 95% of our hand drills.

Tip Kau, Bung Da - Quickly close in tight to press up against the opponent and apply pressuring force with leg/hip/forearm/shoulder/chest to strike/control/throw/unbalance him.

lol, this describes how I teach almost every basic throw we do.

Yep, that's why I think that 12 keywords is not all that big a deal. It's the same old stuff you already know if you have learned from a decent teacher. Some people just think too hard I'm not into Mantis Mantras

N.

[-N-]

what plain is the circle of Lu Lu/Luk Luk on in relation to the plane of...say, your shoulders?

Face the other person, both with right side lead. The other person throws mid to high line punch. Use your left palm to intercept the attack from the outside and gently redirect it off the line. Leak your right arm below his and take over from your left palm. Continue redirecting with with your right arm and shoulder in front. Adjust your redirecting force to tie into his center to unbalance him according to the orientation of his base.

Here's something fun to add. If he escapes with a retreat, stick with your Luk Luk, and turn it into an Ou Lou Tsai attack. Jump in and smash him in the face

Ok, one more.... if he somehow avoids that, cross grab his left parrying hand with your left and use waist chop or belly caving punch or anything else you like to the lower lines.

N.

[-N-]

Libingshao,

Yes, that is what I was thinking of

N.

[libingshao]

-N-

I agree with your evaluation of Lulu/ Fanche as resources rather than a single specific technique. Your body learns Kungfu and then you can see a great deal of the whole in each of the specifics or vice versa. Then you quit thinking and let your kungfu fight. If you have trained all your motions sufficiently, each feeds and support the others. Coupled with fighting training this creates the combatant who fights like Kung-Fu.

Libingshao

[-N-]

Your body learns Kungfu and then you can see a great deal of the whole in each of the specifics or vice versa. Then you quit thinking and let your kungfu fight. If you have trained all your motions sufficiently, each feeds and support the others. Coupled with fighting training this creates the combatant who fights like Kung-Fu.

Sounds good to me!

N.

[Oso]

-N-

thanks for the great reply....I'll cogitate and respond more fully tomorrow.

[-N-]

Anytime Oso. You're a cool guy for a cracker

Ok, j/k. But you are ok in my book.

take care,
N.