Secrecy and Discipleship in America

[Americanmantis]

Thanks guys...these are some great posts. I even had someone call from out of state. Mantid 1's dog post is classic.

dengta~ I hope he says; keeping you as a friend is more important, we had a lot of laughs and good times training, you spent a lot of time and money to train, so I'll teach you the last few forms of Wang Yuanqin's Grand Ultimate.

If he doesn't say that, I'm not interested in what he, or his disciples say.

Dr. George Lisjak

[libingshao]

-N-

I can echo the "held back" techniques. The sifu I have known do not have written curriculum. You stay and you train and, over time, your sifu repeatedly reaches into his memory and experience and teaches you techniques. This is, to me, the real value of staying by your teacher. It is "his" kung-fu he is giving you and it is tied to his life experience and his growth as a teacher. You have to be around because it may be that only at a certain level and at a certain time that he actually "remembers" or "conceptualizes" what he does in a way that he can pass it on.

Right on -N- !

Libingshao

[-N-]

Libingshao,

From what you write, I know you have lived it. Your kung fu must be good. Your students are lucky, and I am happy for you!

That is exactly what I have seen. That is how the real depth of knowledge is transferred. The kung fu is alive, and it is conceptualized and reconceptualized on the spot, for that student, at that time, based on the ongoing dialogue of training from past to present between the teacher and student.

To point to a very weird analogy, the only one that I can think of right now, it is a bit like going to a high level sushi chef. You can walk in off the street, and order off the menu... you will pay the set price, and you will get something standard.... and yes it will be good.

If the sushi master knows you, and you let him, he can create something special for you on the spot. His creation will be one of a kind, using the best of the ingredients that happen to be in his shop that very day. It will show the best of his skills, creativity, and mastery of his art, and it will be the perfect sushi for you, right at that moment. People that know this, get the best of the best.

N.

[dengta]

George Lisjak has been officially expelled from the Taiji Tanglang,
Taiji Meihua Tanglang and Liuhe Tanglang Boxing School of a True
Transmission of Grand Masters Ma Hanqing, Wang Yushan and Wang Yuanqian
and the International Traditional Grand Ultimate, Plum Blossom and Six
Harmonies Praying Mantis Boxing Association for knowingly and willingly
breaking the written oath he signed and swore to on 16th of November
2001. Any person seeking further details should contact
taijitanglang@yahoo.com.

International Traditional Grand Ultimate, Plum Blossom and
Six Harmonies Praying Mantis Boxing Association.
Moscow, New Haven, Boston, Beijing, Qingdao

[Americanmantis]

How am I supposed to get any work done.

libingshao~ untaught techniques...the proverbial "carrot in front of the horse". Meanwhile the "meter" is running.

-N-~ I just want what I ordered.

dengta~ It doesn't mean anything anyway. Refer to my last post.
_________________________________

If your "master" doesn't teach you what you want, and are paying to learn, find someone who will...

A Revolution of Awareness

[-N-]

-N-~ I just want what I ordered.

Well, they do let you have it your way at Burger King

But seriously, I understand where you're coming from. I guess both parties should be in agreement on the nature of the arrangement or transaction so everybody's expectations can be met.

N.

[Ou Ji]

Here we go again.

My bet is on





















it never happening.

[mantid1]

This why I do written contracts now if I am to do such a contract. I know what is expected of me and they know what is expected of them. If there is a question in three years we can sit down and read the contract.

My other suggestion would be to keep challenges private like you started it. Personal challenges should be kept personsal. If for no other reason keep it quiet for leagal reasons.

[Sifu Darkfist]

good luck to all parties involved in this altercation. I only hope cooler heads prevail and all is well once again. This form That form who really cares just train.
I just trained from 5 pm till 10 pm and i feel great.

First 3 miles at 6.5 mph
second weight training with jump rope rotation in between sets
third one hour of cardio class with the ladies (they are known for inspiring an old man to move hard and fast)

fourth hard core mantis class first Wutang traditional Kung fu one Hour
Second san shou, third Hand to Hand combat training. Oh and you have to train harder than your students (unless you are older) or else dont be suprised if the grim reaper knocks early.

10:30 eat much more protein in the form of salmon
All is good with god and the world, i feel great for a thirty five year old nut.
I dont feel like arguing anything, thats for sure.

[kejia nu ren]

per -N-'s suggestion, hopefully some people will find this info useful.

Living the Martial Way by Forrest E. Morgan.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0942...49#reader-link

The book is divided into 3 parts - first one focuses on how one should approach training, second on the role of honor in your role as a martial artist, both within the realm of being a student/teacher as well as the greater community, and third on how your martial training/perspective should be applied to other aspects of your life.

the author uses many references to old-school martial artists and legendary warriors and their writings, mostly Japanese, to emphasize the warrior mentality one had in those days, and how a similar mentality can be applied to modern martial arts. there are also many points made based on tactical/philosophical teachings of Lao-Tzu, Confucious, Sun-Tzu, and even Bruce Lee. it's hard to give a synopsis of each chapter - the book really covers a lot of important topics, IMHO. the table of contents in the amazon excerpt above lists out all the chapter titles, which i think sufficiently describes the content in the book. personally i got the most out of chapters relating to honor, religion and mysticism relating to martial arts, and the warrior-mindset.

i don't necessarily think that one has to follow everything in the book precisely to become a serious or true martial artist, but there is definitely a sense of traditionalism rooted in the author's perspective, which i like a lot. i'm still new to the wonderful world of martial arts, but the principles discussed in this book mirror the way i was raised and my attitude towards all the different aspects of my life, so each person will have a different interpretation/reaction to the content based on their already existent perspectives.

[EarthDragon]

guarentee's in life? ..............................................NONE
Pay for what you get? ...........................................Not always
expect too much in only 3 years of devotion ........NO
learning experience? ..............................................pric eless

suck it up, move on and continue training........ no one can take that away.
Instead of being dissapointed in not learning any more new techniues how about mastering the many techniques you already know?

[viper]

there are somethings that a person can only learn on there own i understand alot about this secrecy thing but dtop lookin and one day it will stare u in the face u just havent realised its worked like that for me i get a lift with one of my seniors hes always sayin it will fall into place i practice wing chun but i think this topic it kinda crosses sorry if i offend and i kept thinkin if keep trainin harder and harder ill find some secret then one day during reflection in my class i saw it just small things that were secrets but unspoken ones sounds like jibberish things u dont see but then do i belive whateva sifu shows me is right im not lookin for something to make me better because thats arrogance martial arts isnt bout bein better. just a thought sorry to intrud on ur subject

[-N-]

Viper,

Were you not in class when your English teacher revealed the secrets of punctuation?

ok I do agree with waht u have 2 say you rox0r d00d 111eleventy1!!

N.

[-N-]

Hakka Gal,

Cool. Thanks for the book overview.

N.

[-N-]

Viper,

Your No Shadow Punctuation technique is very fierce!

N