Katana VS Broad Sword

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

VIDEO OF COW BEHEADED BY SWORD IN SINGLE STROKE. THIS GUY COULD CUT YOU SHOULDER TO HIP.

BE WARNED. I AM NOT JOKING. THIS IS INDEED A VIDEO OF A COW BEING BEHEADED BY A BLADE IN A SINGLE STROKE. AS FAR AS I CAN TELL IT'S AS REAL AS IT GETS.

IF YOU CAN WATCH COWS BE BEHEADED AT WORK ITS WORK SAFE. NO PORN.

http://www.flurl.com/uploaded/Cow_beheaded_708.html

ONCE AGAIN ... THAT IS A VIDEO OF A COW GETTING ITS ****ING HEAD CHOPPED RIGHT THE **** OFF.

.... someone complained recently that i didnt give a warning when posting that mortal kombat video so i didnt want to be accused of the same thing when a warning really was in order.

[Ben Gash]

Yeah, that's from the Nepalese new year celebrations. If he cuts it off in one stroke, it'll be a good year, if not it'll be bad. Not that I believe in such things, but the guy failed in '87-'88 and there was a huge earthquake, so now they make REALLY sure they can do it. However, case in point, Kukhri aren't really that sharp (not as sharp as a Katana anyway)and are made in simple forges using old Land Rover springs. Technique counts, and beyond a certain point sharpness becomes irrelevent.

[PangQuan]

frankly, in a duel. the keeness of a blades edge will have little effect on the outcome. The fight would likely last a total amound of 10-120 seconds of actual engaged combat, all other time would be mental combat.

Depending on the level of the two individuals skill...chances are both men would die. This was actually a very common occurance with sword duels, either that or you had one very skilled person against a novice...this is how the unscathed duels happened.

An old saying.

"when two tigers meet, one will be wounded and the other will die"

This represents the situation of skill being the deciding factor in any situation, two tigers naturally posessing the same tools and skills, chances are both will be hurt, and even if one does walk away, it still may die from wounds.


The answer then to the question who would win in a Samurai wielding katana vs. Shaolin monk wielding a dao duel fight, we dont know. And cannot know. But likely both would get hurt.

[SifuAbel]

For a broadsword at least, the cutting vs. blocking ratio is negligible. Most of the blocking is done from the "belly" down. While most of the cutting is done from the belly up.

It doesn't matter which sword can cut you more if it doesn't touch you to begin with.

[Royal Dragon]

Many katana have edges that are around 60 on the rockwell hardness scale. The back of the blade is significantly softer. That's how katana were designed. That's a very hard edge, katana keep sharp for a long time. I think on average you could probably cut about 200 to 300 tatami before having to resharpen the blade, that's like cutting through 100 human limbs before needing to resharpen.

Reply]
SIXTEY!?!?! Do you have any idea how brittle that is? Every cut will be chipping the edge of the blade away, it will be dull as a butter knife in no time!!

I have found that an edge any higher than 58 does not last vey long, however they can be made insanely sharp. A softer edge , that is not razor sharp, but has good cutting power will far out last the delicate, and brittle edge of a blade hardened to 60 or more and honed razor sharp. It's a fact of metalurgy. The only way a blade is going to cut 200 - 300 tatami is if it's NOT insanely sharp to begin with. It has to be sharp, and have good cutting power and all, but the general rule is the sharper the edge, the weaker the edge. The harder the steel, the more brittle the edge, and thus the weaker, and less longevity it has.

ATS-34 is a great blade steel because it is dense, and with a rockwell of 54-56 it can be made to shave if desired, but a slighty duller & coarser grind gives it awesome cutting power, and also the added bennifit of much greater edge durability. The same can be said for the katana's design.

I just don't believe in ancient times they would be obsessed with insanely sharp razor shaveing edges, when good cutting power combined with long durability was what was needed. That insanely sharp edge thing is a modern status symbol for those posessing swords they will never do combat with. It's for the bragging rights boys.

Oh, BTW archeologicaly speaking, the technology behind the Katana's metalurgy is actually of Chinese origin, and goes back much further than most people think.

[SimonM]

However this does not matter in a single duel. To be blunt if you can chop off ONE limb in the course of a duel your opponent is done. Hell a nice deep gash along the belly, throat or inside of the thigh can do the job.

In a single duel scenario I will have to cast my lot in with the deciding factors being skill and luck. And I do tend to agree with the "two tigers" saying. I've done some fencing and some sparring with bokken and some sparring with long wooden sticks which were supposed to represent jian. And from my experience it was pretty common for both parties to take a hit unless there was a sizeable skill differential.

PS: On an almost unrelated note I picked up a new Jian. It's a dramatic improvement over the old one. I have photos on an unfinished roll in my camera right now and when I develop the roll I'll post them.

It's short, broad bladed and heavy (I'm guessing around 5 lbs... AT THE VERY LEAST twice as heavy as the last sword I posted images of). It actually reminds me of an old-style celtic sword except for the fact that it's covered in Chinese decorations.

I love it and have already consigned the old one (with it's pretty sheath and crappy steel) to the status of wall-hanger while the new one has become my practice blade.

[Scott R. Brown]

An old saying.

"when two tigers meet, one will be wounded and the other will die"

This represents the situation of skill being the deciding factor in any situation, two tigers naturally posessing the same tools and skills, chances are both will be hurt, and even if one does walk away, it still may die from wounds.


The answer then to the question who would win in a Samurai wielding katana vs. Shaolin monk wielding a dao duel fight, we dont know. And cannot know. But likely both would get hurt.

Good Point!

Conclusion:

No one wins!

[paradoxbox]

I think I agree with the idea that if 2 skilled opponents, one using a katana, the other a jian, they would likely both be injured.

There was a very skilled martial artist by the name of Takamatsu To****sugu in the late 1920's, early 30's who toured China and Mongolia searching for people to duel with and learning to master Chinese martial arts (He was already a grandmaster of about a dozen Japanese arts).

This guy encountered legends in China, the kind of people you and I would search a lifetime to find and train with. And he sparred and dueled with them. He had a very healthy respect for true shaolin styles, and wrote about it several times. He eventually went on to master something like 18 Chinese arts, both internal and external. If this guy felt that genuine shaolin styles were dangerous I am more than convinced that he realised they could mess him up as badly as he could mess them up. And those people were about as close as you can get to the description of Samurai and Monk as you can get.

[greensage22]

whoever wants it more..........

[Hephaestus]

I believe the original scenario involved a katana and a dao, not a jian, thus all mentions of curvature being in any way relevant are moot. A Chinese broadsword/saber/dao has a curve -- at least the northern blade that would have been used by a Shaolin monk.

That aside, it still all comes down to a matter of skill, dedication, experience, and luck.

[Thomas Chen]

Hi guys

Check out my website on classical Chinese swords:

http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/


My essay on Chinese swords vs Japanese swords...

http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/favorite_links.html


Sorry about the pop-ups... They are quite a nuisance from my free webhost provider... Installing pop-up blocker software does solve the problem though...

[Mr Punch]

For any of you newbies or people with short memories claiming that Japanese blade technology was superior to Chinese... we've already been schooled on that one http://martial.best.vwh.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37402.

I'm with Ben Gash, which is why I always carry around a box of wet ground

Although the only reason any Japanese people (who had in fact already been abolished as a class before the period you mention Ben) carried around Western swords was to show they had embraced Westernised economics and to some degree social norms, not as any acknowledgement of any superiority of Western blades.

[paradoxbox]

The presence of 'pattern welding' or folds does not indicate the superiority of one blade over the other though.

The Japanese did that kind of folding because of the low quality iron available to the, pounding the blades over and over against removes impurities in steel (also removes carbon if done too much).

I don't know why the Chinese swords would have it other than for aesthetics, there is plenty of good iron available to make steel in China. Same folding process, very different reasons for doing it I suspect.

[Forkintheroad]

as far as who would win, I can't say, the more skilled I guess. However as far as the brittleness of a katana, your forgetting their method of creating swords. They take Iron ore (same as every other sword maker) then fold it and fold it and fold it and fold it at least a dozen times, (the brittle part). Then they take a nother piece of Iron ore and heat and work it until it soft and malable. Then they fold the brittle steel over the soft steel, re-heat it, then quench it. The curve is actually formed by the 2 grades of steel cooling at different rates wile being quenched. This forging creates a very rigid exterior with a very soft interior. In short it created an insanely sharp blade, but also has some give as well. There are reports during WWII of sheathed katanas being struck by shot gun blasts to the point the decorative sheath was destroyed but the blade was still in fairly good shape (The shot gun example was on History Channels Mail Call). By the way Inyasha's a pretty good show.

[EarthDragon]

as I love the katana. I have a short note to make.

I held a matsuyama katana in my hands was was asked to cut a piece of bamboo with it. when I did I was told I did not attack the swing or the cut correctly.

the man whom told me this said that the katnana cut is unlike other swords. it's cut comes from the technique when you come in contact with the object then twist and thrust through it. not the other way around. l realized this when he could slice the bamboo like butter and I could not forcebly cut only a into it.

has anyone ever felt a real katana? ever tried to cut with it?