Asian/Caucasian connection.

[PangQuan]

generally if people dont know the difference its not their fault.

ignorance is ignorance.

a lot of people dont go around studying things like this.

how keen are you on every politically correct terminology for every single ethnic group on the planet?

i bet out of ignorance you could easily offend someone, and likely do, ignorant the entire time never even realizing that you insulted someone...and you to this day still dont know it.

[FuXnDajenariht]

its ironic but sometimes the perception of "ignorance" orginates from the guilt other people have and has less to do with the race itself. you go around and ask some people if a "racial" word offends them and alot of the time surprisingly they'll say no.

but if you say that same word infront of someone of a different race they act more shocked and appalled than is necessary. their afraid of not seeming P.C. im guessing. i think people actually are getting thicker skinned though. sort of as a backlash. you see racial slurs getting spouted everywhere now. atleast where i live. i dont know if thats good or bad. but maybe people are tried of letting trivial words get to them so much.

its amazing though how a few combinations of letters can bring up so many emotions... people are strange...

[Mel]

Hell, forget racism.....how about genderism? This whole thread is judgmental in one way or another toward women in general: whether they're pretty or ugly, desirable or not, etc. As if anyone has the right to stand on a pedestal and judge and/or define another, especially based on such shallow terms.

"So and so is attractive. So and so is not. I have spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done." Geesh.

[KC Elbows]

Hell, forget racism.....how about genderism? This whole thread is judgmental in one way or another toward women in general: whether they're pretty or ugly, desirable or not, etc. As if anyone has the right to stand on a pedestal and judge and/or define another, especially based on such shallow terms.

"So and so is attractive. So and so is not. I have spoken. So let it be written. So let it be done." Geesh.

People who roll their eyes are seriously fugly.

[Scott R. Brown]

It is in the nature of humans to separate themselves into “us and them” social groups. Racial groups are just the most outwardly noticeable. But even racial groups create separate groups within themselves. Many blacks separate themselves from other blacks by how dark their skin is, many Mexicans separate themselves into Border Brothers (originating from Mexico), Southerners (originating from southern California) Northerners (originating from northern California). My historical brethren, the Scots, separated themselves into Highlanders and Lowlanders and then even more into specific Clans!

Humans are basically tribal by nature. We function much better and gain a sense of identity and belonging through maintaining social relationships within small groups. My wife is a Filipina by nationality; she is from the metropolitan Manila area. Manila is divided into many small neighborhoods called Baranguay (pronounced BARREN-GAY). A Baranguay is basically a small village within the greater city. They elect their own leaders and their own local law enforcement individuals. Baranguay police mediate local disputes and intervene in relatively minor crimes and disturbances. The city police are called in for major crimes and to transport offenders to jail. This is a perfect example of how people divide themselves into smaller groups. Now, even within the Baranguay’s there are smaller familial groups. My wife’s family has lived on her street for over 100 years. They owned an orchard before it was over taken by the expanding city. But within this small group smaller groups are found.

Divisions are a natural human behavior and will continue to occur as long as humans are human. Words are used to derogate selected others outside a specific social group! This generally serves the purpose of building social cohesiveness within the group. A common enemy strengthens group unity! This occurs within all groups. The Politically Correct crowd derogates anyone they decide does not fall within their predetermined social rules. This basically makes them hypocrites since they are engaging in the same behavior for which they are critical of others. If racial derogations are inappropriate then all derogation should be considered inappropriate as well.

However within the context of this discussion it must be understood that words mean whatever any individual wants them to mean! As an example, take the “N” word; socially speaking, Blacks are allowed to refer to each other by this nomen, while others are not. Blacks use the word at times as a term of endearment when referring to their close friends. Even if a white used the same term with the intent of using it as a term of endearment it would be considered socially offensive. To some, the White person’s intent when using the word would be irrelevant! This is itself a form of racism. The term is offensive because of the race of the person using it and this is undeniably racism! If we wish to stamp out racism then we must stamp it out in all its forms. We can't say it is ok for Blacks to be racist, but Whites, or Asians or Hispanics (Latinos for the easily offended!) are not allowed. The context of a seemingly offensive action or word must be taken into consideration if we wish to act justly. To automatically label another person a racist due to something they said taken out of context or disregarding their original intent is ignorant, immature and intellectually irresponsible.

Take the example of Jackie Chan’s comment in Rush Hour: He goes into a bar and repeats what he hears his Black friend say without understanding the social connotations. His character has no idea of the social consequences of what he is saying, yet he instantly offends the entire bar. This is racism on the part of the bar patrons. They automatically took offense because the term was used by a non-Black without taking the time to understand the original intent! The intent is clearly innocent within that context of how and why it was said. The behavior of the bar patrons may be understandable, but it is still ignorant and immature!

This form of racism has long been justified because of the historical oppression of Blacks within American society. However, racism should be disapproved of in all its forms or one cannot consider their own actions or attitudes just, moral or ethical!

The offensiveness of the “N” word is due to the historical usage of the word to derogate the human quality of Blacks. The word has carried over its social offensiveness to this day, but it is only offensive within a specified context determined by the Politically Correct and the over sensitive! I am not saying the word is not still used to derogate Blacks and I do not intend to harp only on the “N” word. It is merely the most commonly understood term of derogation within American society and that is why I am using it as an example. Any word that is INTENDED to be derogatory should be considered an immature usage and it can be ANY WORD!! That is my point! “It is the intent of the person using the word that makes it derogatory, NOT the word in and of itself!!” Each social group seems to want to determine which words they want to be derogatory of them. This creates a mind set of victimhood, and is not a productive method of reaching social equality! If I take offense because another is derogatory of me, it says something about my maturity if I consider their words or opinion meaningful in my life. It also says something about the maturity of the person, but I am the one responsible for how I allow their words to affect me. I can't change the attitudes of other people, but I can change my own.

To be very clear: I am well aware many like to re-interpret or take out of context what others post therefore please read the following:

“I AM NOT APPROVING THE COMMON EVERYDAY USAGE OF THE “N” WORD!! IT IS CLEARLY SOCIALLY TABOO IN AMERICA!!! I MERELY USE THE WORD AS AN EXAMPLE OF HOW A SPECIFIC WORD MEANS WHAT A SOCIAL GROUP WISHES IT TO MEAN. THIS WORD HAS A SOCIAL CONTEXT THAT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF ABUSE!! I DO NOT RECOMMEND THAT ANYONE USE THIS WORD WHO IS NOT BLACK!! HOWEVER I WOULD ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO HEARS THE WORD SPOKEN TO MAKE AN EFFORT TO BE CLEAR ABOUT THE INTENDED CONTEXT BEFORE THEY KICK SOMEONE’S A$$!! AND THIS APPLIES TO “ALL” WORDS THAT MAY BE ARBITRARILY DETERMINED BY SELF APPOINTED P.C. POLICE TO BE DEROGATOTY!!

AS IN “ASIAN – ORIENTAL”!!!!!!!

[Ou Ji]

Redheads are hot!

[Serpent]

they are the absolute minority - they are black AND female

Nah. To be the absolute minority they'd need to be lesbians and midgets too.

Like you.

[FuXnDajenariht]

black lesbian midgets. now thats ****in hot dude!!

i just wet myself again....

[SPJ]

To each his own;

Moi prefer plus size or plumb and super models are match sticks for me.

An example would be the Lewvinsky with the hat.

[SPJ]

Do you know that everyone in Hollywood wants to a mom and then now everyone is starving to look like Paris?

[Dahmanegi]

lets keep this simple. if a word isn't offensive in a context like oriental cuisine or medicine then it isn't offensive. mmmkay?

now if someone says nig*** cuisine or music or just plain ol " honey, look at the nig' ". thats another story. you see the difference? no matter what your describing it'll still get your ass handed to you.

i hope that clears up your confusion.

Cuisine and medicine are different from people, and because of this others should be sensitive to the use of the word towards said people. I haven't proclaimed that the word oriental was a racist word, but it's a definately dated. By all means use the word to describe medicine, art, music, and what not...just don't describe me, or anyone else of asian decent, as oriental. Of course noone is perfect and we are all ignorant to different things, but make an attempt atleast. We don't go around calling people of African decent negroes anymore, so why are we still using the term Oriental for people of Asian decent?

Once again, this wasn't brought up to spark racist debate, and I appreciate those with a mature enough head to actually address the matter. Me bringing this up was more to inform more than anything else.

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Dahmanegi,

You are missing the point, so I will be more direct.

You are not the arbiter of appropriate speech! No one should care how you want to be called!

You are not the only Asian/Oriental on the planet. Those of us who are not of your ethnic origin should not have to interview every Asian/Oriental we meet to determine what words or appellations they find offensive. Not all of them care; this is because innocent, well meaning speech does not offend truly mature individuals. If it offends you to be called an Oriental that is your problem and your issue! Don’t project your issues onto the well meaning, but non-conforming people! They are not responsible to make you feel good about yourself or your ethnicity, you are responsible for yourself.

In short, quit whining about it! If you wish to enforce your narrow view on everyone else don’t be a hypocrite! You should treat everyone you meet with the same courtesy you expect from them. Ask every Black if they prefer to be called, Black, African-American, Afro-American or Negro! Ask every Hispanic if they want to be called Hispanic, Latino, Cuban, Puerto Rican, Mexican, etc. Ask every American Indian if they prefer to be called Sioux, Cherokee, Blackfoot, Mandan, Ute, Apache, etc. Ask every White person you meet if they want to be called White, European, French, German, Scot, Irish, Anglo, etc. As you can see to treat everyone with same expectation you have for yourself would be ridiculous and childish!! So how about growing up, get rid of the chip on your shoulder and learning to live with it like the rest of us have too!!

[Dahmanegi]

LOL! I agree, you shouldn't have to ask everyone what they prefer to be called, but you've been missing MY point. Why not just call someone by an appropriate and correct term in the first place? Wouldn't that save a lot of trouble? Also, where do you get the idea that I am the only one who feels this way? Perhaps in this thread or on this forum, but I guarantee I'm not the only one. The issue obviously garners enough attention to be addressed in dictionarys, and it's supposed to be just me?

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi Dahmanegi,

Well my point is:

Who made YOU and/or your friends and acquaintances the arbiters of “an appropriate and correct term”!! Terms are merely socially agreed upon conventions used for the purpose of communicating with one and other. They are highly fluid over time. They are conventions, artificial and ultimately meaningless until we give them meaning!! The term Oriental is offensive or inappropriate to YOU and your acquaintances only because you arbitrarily decided it to be so! So you are responsible for the fact it irritates or offends you, not the person who uses the term! It does not offend many or most Asians!!

As I have mentioned earlier my wife is of Malaysian and Chinese ethnicity (and possibly Spanish we are uncertain of that)! I also work with nearly 100 Asians and 20-30 Mexicans. I took a poll of the Asians, and the Mexicans too by the way! Every single one not only doesn’t care what they are called, they all thought it was a stupid question!! When I explained to them the circumstance behind my question they ALL laughed at you!! Because to them it is all the same thing, whether it is Oriental/Asian or Mexican/Hispanic/Latino!! So I am trying to say to you that your original statement, “The word "oriental" is derogatory towards Asian people” is a FALSE statement!! It is only how you have chosen to view the term and you are not the sole arbiter for the Asians of the world!!

Perhaps you believe it to be offensive because you were told it SHOULD be offensive!! You are still very young and if you have grown up in America you have grown up in a very P.C. society. If you live in America you have most likely attended P.C. schools or had P.C. teachers or universities professors telling you how you SHOULD think and feel. The P.C. police have a tendency to TELL minorities how they SHOULD feel about these sorts of things! I encourage you once again to drop the chip on your shoulder and lighten up!!

The people I have polled are all mature adults in their 30’s up to 60’s!! They don’t wear their ethnicity on their sleeve as a badge of oppression!! They are all proud of their ethnic heritage, but are not as overly sensitive as you clearly are!

A term is only derogatory if the person using it intends for it to be derogatory!! Don’t let the P.C. police control your attitudes about your ethnicity and if they don’t, then lighten and don’t be so arrogant as to think you speak for the Asian population of the world!! Recognize that it offends you because you have chosen for it to offend you, therefore you are responsible for your own feelings and not the persons who refer to Asians as Oriental!!

Our experiences are determined by our perspective and our perspective is determined by our social programming! At some level you have accepted the social programming that the term Oriental is derogatory. You have not thought to question the validity of this; therefore you are controlled by your social programming and are not really an independent thinker. When we automatically accept our social programming without question we are nothing more than sheep being led along by our noses. We are not independent individuals making our own determinations based upon reason and examination if we have not questioned our blindly accepted truths for their underlying truth or falsity!!

[SimonM]

For me, race isn't a factor at all.

For the last little while the majority of my dating and courting has involved Chinese women.

For some reason Chinese women seem to think I'm handsome; go figure.

I also happen to find asian eyes (and dark eyes in general) attractive and some Chinese women have very dark eyes.

Oh yeah, and I live in China.