Chan Wah Shun Vs Wong Fei Hung

[Third Degree]

Has anyone heard about one of Yip Man's teachers/seniors getting defeated by a pak mei practitioner who defeated him with a pheonix eye punch?

It is the first time I've ever come across this story.

The person who told me this story said it was in Fatsan so not sure if it is true or not!

[sihing]

Not to get off topic, very interesting one indeed, but what is the definition of Rou Jing arts, as compared to Hard arm bridge specialist (I think I have a idea of what each one means but wouldn't mind knowing for sure). My understanding of Wing Chun practitioners is that they too should have Iron Bridges, meaning to me that my bridge arms are hard to the touch(meaning the opponents limbs are broken when their attacks meet our bridge) and hard to move (not meaning stiff, but flexible like a loaded spring)..

Thanks in advance.

James

[Jim Roselando]

HS,


Excellent post.

Lets forget the story and look at the DNA and see if it supports the story or not!

None of us were there so who knows but I do like to give credit to who deserves it and hence why I want LJ to get credit for his skills. Nothing against Chan Wah! I am sure he was an awsome dude but unless more sources start coming out stating the story was reversed then?

The whole idea of the guy is too strong so lets let a stronger guy play is not cool IMO as thats not WCK way to meet force with more force to equalize! That way, the bigger/stronger will always win.


Peace,

[Jim Roselando]

Hey James!


How are you?


Not to get off topic, very interesting one indeed, but what is the definition of Rou Jing arts, as compared to Hard arm bridge specialist (I think I have a idea of what each one means but wouldn't mind knowing for sure).

Rou Jing (within soft carries hard)

Typically, they like to elongate and soften the body/sinews/tendons where as harder arts tend to strengthen via iso or dynamic tension sets with and without partner. Like, a harder stir the pot push hands and double bridge open close partenr sets etc..

My understanding of Wing Chun practitioners is that they too should have Iron Bridges, meaning to me that my bridge arms are hard to the touch(meaning the opponents limbs are broken when their attacks meet our bridge) and hard to move (not meaning stiff, but flexible like a loaded spring)..

There are lots of ways with lots of arts to get the iron bridge. In many ways the bridge strengthens gradually day by day over hte years thru training and partner stuff. The Chi can also harden the bones but that would be an advanced ammount of that sort of training for years. Yet! Thats the Softest way. You may want to read Chen Man Cheng's 13 chapters. It talks about it Rou!

A description of the feel??? Hendrik feels like cotton at all points. When you touch him you get nothing and then he absorbs your balance to pull you into his orb. Thats when the bang is about to come.


Peace,

[sihing]

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the info, much appreciated.....Interesting stuff indeed.

JR

[canglong]

originally posted by KPM
Too bad Hendrik isn't still around.

Hendrik Said,

" Wing Chun's Tan sau is origin from the Water Shape Hand of White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian. Tan Sau's power generation type is power by Emei 12 Zhuang's Rou Jing type of Power. Thus, Wing Chun 's Tan sau is different compare with White Crane Weng Chun of Fujian." You are certainly open to proof him wrong...

hendkik since you are back now might be a good time to clean your house and answer all the many question you left undone Ten Tigers, Levi, KPM, kung fu fighter and others are still waiting.... As for proving you wrong when someone like yourself argues that the Sun rises in the west and sets in the east you don't need to argue with them you just prove them wrong in 3 easy moves and show them the error of their ways as they lay on their back watching a beautiful sunset to the west.

[canglong]

Fung Chun, Leung Jan's grandstudent is pretty close to the source IMHO!

Jim,
Closer to Chan Wah Shun than Chan Wah Shun's own grandson once again your opinion fails you.

[Hendrik]

hendkik since you are back now might be a good time to clean your house and answer all the many question you left undone Ten Tigers, Levi, KPM, kung fu fighter and others are still waiting.... As for proving you wrong when someone like yourself argues that the Sun rises in the west and sets in the east you don't need to argue with them you just prove them wrong in 3 easy moves and show them the error of their ways as they lay on their back watching a beautiful sunset to the west.

as Jim said,

Lets forget the story and look at the DNA and see if it supports the story or not!

I think that is a good way.

Nothing personal anyway and right or wrong is based on angle of perspective which might not reflect what is going on.

Peace

[canglong]

Lets forget the story and look at the DNA and see if it supports the story or not!

My perspective is Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo were both practicing SNT/CK/BJ and they were both senior to Yik Kam. So clearly we understand why you would want to "forget the story".

Yik Kam (Yi Jin, Changing Gold) was an actor in the Red Junk Opera who played the role of Cheung Tan, the proper woman. According to Cho family Wing Chun Kuen traditions, he was the third student, after Wong Wah-Bo and Leung Yee-Tai. - Rene Ritchie

[Jim Roselando]

Tony,



Jim,
Closer to Chan Wah Shun than Chan Wah Shun's own grandson once again your opinion fails you.


Yes! Your right!


So, does Chan Wah's grandson WCK resemble the WCK of Chan Wah's students including more common stuff like Leung Sheung, YKS and other arts that are all similar or does it look more like something different? Lets talk about the stylistic characteristics of Chan Wah's Futshan pupils and compare them to other lineages and then compare them to what the Chan family practices today!


Maybe then we can leave each others logics or desired beliefs a side and see whats what! Perhaps by doing this we can also see around what generation there may have been individual infuence or change.


Regards,

[Jim Roselando]

Tony wrote:


My perspective is Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo were both practicing SNT/CK/BJ and they were both senior to Yik Kam. So clearly we understand why you would want to "forget the story".


Yik Kam's WCK and Leung Jan's Koo Lo teaching have mega similarity. Structurally and skill wise. Heck! Even some of our terms, that you dont see/hear too often are both preserved by these two arts. Leung Yee Tai was Leung Jan's second sifu. He played the womans role. Yik Kam also played the womans role. Perhpas this is why they are more siilar. Both must not have been strong big guys like Wong Wah Bo. We should also remember that Wong Wah Bo was also a White Crane guy right? Was Yik Kam and Yee Tai both Crane and Wing or just Wingers?

As for SLT, CK & BJ!

According to Leung Jan's history they were originally all one form that were subdivided into 3 sets. According to Fung Wah Sang sifu, the 3 sets were also originally one long set and it was Leung Jan's sifu that split them into 3 (wong wah bo). According to YKS and Sum Nung they state that the 3 were originally all one long set. This is one of the reasons you mainly see the 3 sets being practice by Wong's two pupils (Leung and Fok). One form, 3 forms, whatever. That does ot mean anything. Its the content.

Leung Jan stated:

The hand techniques are taught in one part but differ very little!


I apprecaite this discussion! Helps us all discuss this stuff more!

Please Tony! Tell us what are the root military and monk arts that were used in the development of your WCK?


Regards,

[canglong]

So, does Chan Wah's grandson WCK resemble the WCK of Chan Wah's students including more common stuff like Leung Sheung, YKS and other arts that are all similar or does it look more like something different? Lets talk about the stylistic characteristics of Chan Wah's Futshan pupils and compare them to other lineages and then compare them to what the Chan family practices today!

Jim,
That has absolutely nothing to do with message Chan Guo Ji has put forth which is what we are discussing.

According to Leung Jan's history they were originally all one form that were subdivided into 3 sets. According to Fung Wah Sang sifu, the 3 sets were also originally one long set and it was Leung Jan's sifu that split them into 3 (wong wah bo). According to YKS and Sum Nung they state that the 3 were originally all one long set.

You use Leung Jan as a source and not question any part but you question everything Chan Guo Ji has to say.

[Jim Roselando]

Tony,


That has absolutely nothing to do with message Chan Guo Ji has put forth which is what we are discussing.

How so? This is where the discussion has gone! Didn't you write:

My perspective is Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo were both practicing SNT/CK/BJ and they were both senior to Yik Kam. So clearly we understand why you would want to "forget the story".

When I present info regarding "your" perspective you then say:

You use Leung Jan as a source and not question any part but you question everything Chan Guo Ji has to say.

ROFLMAO!

Tony! As long as you are happy that is all that matter.

The story is well known and everyone who knows the story (from numerous lineage) heard the same thing. If, sifu says is good enough info for you than thats cool. I will stick with the available research from numerous sources unless you can come up with some sort of info..


Regards,

[canglong]

I will stick with the available research from numerous sources unless you can come up with some sort of info..

Jim,
Lets review those Numerous sources if you don't mind.

[Jim Roselando]

CL,


Looking forward to see more info. come out on this subject!


Regards,