Kung Fu and UFC

[TAO YIN]

Seven,

I always dig what you say man, but you need to get over the throat thing. Anyways, at least it's not the whole upper torso now. Doesn't matter, throat (entire neck also including occiptical region, temples, as well as...) strikes still aren't allowed, Jeez, can't even drop an elbow on the neck from mount. So, flying over dead horses...However, I would like to see these added. Eye gouging from mount, SWEET! I always thought it was weird that you can rear that naked choke, but can't bite at the same time, what's up with that? Talk about cauliflower ears that would be. Right......

ha

[SifuAbel]

No, Bo Hou Chuan is superiour, I won all my fight, but they were against no name local boys.

No, I don't think a strike with stop someone, that is why I don't rely on playing tag with my fist. And yes, I train in a controlled environment, but I don't train for a controlled environment.
You are correct you must train with strikes, but I don't waste my time training to rely on them.

WTF?!?!?!?!

[SevenStar]

but of course no one will give kung fu credit for this. But we must remember the UFC was brain stormed and invented by the gracies for a BJJ competition. not MMA abnd surley not other styles.

the term MMA had not yet been coined back then, so No, it wasn't designed for them.

try entering a MM Artist in a Tuei Sao competition and see how they do. will they compare with the Taji guys?

perhaps - if they trained for it.

[EarthDragon]

seven

Quote:
try entering a MM Artist in a Tuei Sao competition and see how they do. will they compare with the Taji guys?


perhaps - if they trained for it.

perhaps but I would wager the taiji guys would dominate the circle. however that would not discredit the MMA.

my game my rules will always come out on top.

[maximus]

OK we have been through this so many times before but here it goes.
rent UFC 6 and 7 my kung fu brother joel sutton won with 8 step praying mantis kung fu. dont get me worng he had to mix up his fighting strategy a litlle but still his training and technques relied on prayingmantis kung fu and he won both of his bouts with it.

Thanks EarthDragon I'll check them out.

Thanks to all who posted here, it's been interesting hearing the differing points of view on what is clearly a sensitive issue.

[g0pher]

I saw this article in Grappling magazine about Pat Miletech's training methods, and how he trains fighters willing to learn with him. What I read was amazing. Guys came from all over the world to the middle of no where, and begged to train with him. It said most quit after the first day. And for the few that remained they trained every day of the week for 6 to 7 hours a day, gave up their lives (some very successful ones at that), and took up odd jobs around town like being janitors, bartenders, and street cleaners to train with Miletech... These guys give up their lives to train, and they train to fight. They don't train to become better people, or to learn how to mimic something they saw in a Bruce Lee movie. A lot of those guys (in the article) train because they have nothing to go back to at home. You can't beat people like that. I know its a generalization, but thats how it is. Moreover, American society is a Mcdonald's society. We want all of what we see, and we want it fast. Most people generally do not have to emotional make-up to learn Kung Fu for 20 or 30 years, but we all want to be the best at the same time. Grappling is something that is very effective, and can be made to be effective learned in a short amount of time. Grappling arts have come back to stay.

So anyway, if you take kung fu, you have stand up skill, you throw, you know joint locks, and you can fight on the ground. There should be no excuse for a kung fu man to be inferior in technique to a grappler. You possess the same skill. If you think you don't you just need to learn to use them. And you do that by sparring... It comes down to who is more hungry.

[SevenStar]

Two guys I train with spent a weekend training at his camp - they said it was intense.

[johnyk]

I just looked at the wutanbrunswik link.
Everyone looks chinese, except for the full contact fighters who are all white.
What's with that?

[FatherDog]

No, Bo Hou Chuan is superiour, I won all my fight, but they were against no name local boys.

Who were these local boys, and what promotion did you fight in?

So anyway, if you take kung fu, you have stand up skill,

Definitely, if you train it right.

you throw,

In some styles, yah.

and you can fight on the ground.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[FuXnDajenariht]

lol sh!t....i thought sumone resurrected an old thread.

[Sifu Darkfist]

that's not true at all. Does your style not punch? Do you not kick? Do you not lock? Do you not throw? All these things are legal. Heck, the grapplers, can't actually BREAK the limbs, as they would in the street, so they have limitations too. And think about it - If I have you on the ground and under complete control, isn't it easier for ME to eye gouge? allowing eye gouges would only give them more of an advantage on the ground.




You can always tell people who know nothing about the meaning of competition...

Actually, I always inform al students including top-notch fighters the limitations of foolish hand fighters. Yes, we kick and punch in the ring like anyone. No, we try to kill in the street without regard. I have trained my whole life with a ground fighter who I grew up with. I have also enjoyed Army hand-to-hand training at the advanced level. The fact is those that rely on controlling the fight on the ground in combat, end up dead. That is why in Wutang they train bodyguards to dispatch on contact or for you to set up you’re your partner to kill (you lose your life in the process). However, some people cannot accept their overall ineffectiveness with hands and feet in the real world.

You people have to calm down it is a fact that you will not beat a bullet. please look to Japan historically, or our own ancestors in the 1900 boxer rebellions. The gun beats IRON BODY. So…. ufc ifc wefc wwf www. ftw or san shou all amount toooo , sport Sport SPORT. Face it… live long and be healthy or as Earth Dragon would say “be well” (not at the far end of a shell).

ps
sorry it took so long to confirm i was coaching fighters etc at a event over the three day weekend

[SimonM]

I'll believe it when I see it.

My Canadian school trained ground-fighting rather extensively.

[Willow Palm]

MMA versus CMA....lol... Who cares? Both do what they do and that is that (could I be more vague?)

Here's some advice on how to size it up. Teacher, student, and finally style. A good teacher is first because he/she will lead to all doors that you need opened. Student is second because you must put in the blood, sweat, and tears it takes to do it and do it right. And style is third because it is merely the vehicle you use to get to whatever your destination may be. No style is superior to another. Find a good teacher and train hard. When I first met my previous sifu he said to me,

"Learn to eat bitter."

I love this quote because it encompasses everything that kungfu is to me. As far as who would win a fight, it just depends on [B]EVERYTHING[B]. Speaking of which, I'm off to work out.

Happy Training,
Warren

[Ben Gash]

I remember Joel Sutton, he was seriously tough.
Why do more KF people not do UFC? MMA attracts a certain type of competitor, and these people tend to be drawn to the more competitive disciplines in the first place.
Also, the early "style on style" UFCs were quite weighted, with some top notch grappling talent and a bunch of has beens and nobodies on the striking front. The only world class stand up fighter I can think of in the first 5 UFCs was Orlando Weit, and he was only a middle weight and lost to a 300lb JJJ fighter, which proved what exactly? Once guys like Vovchanchin came through who could do both well, the format evolved into MMA. So now the guys who do well train for it specifically and have experience standing and on the ground. So you may as well ask "how come more shot putters don't do the 100 metres?"

[Becca]

Come on!
If a kung fu person can get into a position where they could maim another competitor, then surely they could show enough restraint to follow a ruleset! What difference is it between the skills needed to land a strike to the chin, or a poke to the eyes? It's amazing that in this day and age we still have people who think that a kung fu practitioner can't compete because thier stuff is "too dangerous".

Here, here!!! I don't know about other schools, but every one I've ever studied at or even visited taught that to be able to use a techinque in real life you must train it for real. And if you don't train with control, you maim your training partners. Not good.

If you can control yourself enough to turn a ridge hand strike to the neck into a palm strike to the chin in training, you should be able to do that fighting in a venue, yes?

On another track... Did you watch this weeks TUF2? The fighter for the green team was using some very traditional techniques such as distracting his opponant from getting a triangle choke by slapping his face with the trapped arm. That was perfectly leagal and very much a common stratagy in any traditional cirriculem.